I have been thinking about buying KRC's lighting killer package but is it really that good of a deal? i was just wondering if anyone out there is runing it and how they liked it?
Lighting Killer Package
1BadRT
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what will he do about the hood, sorry but I don't agree with the above statement. Supercharger's arent just a cimple bolt on, once you get boost its a ongoiong process, check around with people who have purchased one.sick 660r said:
the package looks good but I don't know anyone who has it sorry. But I do feel that better 1/4 times can be had for that amount of money. ie.. different part selection, like a tci torque converter or viper, intstead of flometrics throttlw body get a F&B throttle body, better heads, and so on.
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I too think you'd probably be able to get a better selection of parts for a little bit more money possibly, but the whole idea of the lightning killer package is just that-it is a package. I'm sure if you had similar parts picked out that suited your needs a little better, they'd still offer you some type of combo package deal and give you a little discount. I'd think other vendors would do the same as well.
Um, My vortech bolted on with absolutly no modifications what so ever, and added 114 REAR wheel horsepower. A blower is the best bang for the buck hands down. And the only reason it is a ongoing process is that you always want more. And you can still have a hood.MagnumDak said:
One thing is right the MP convertor sucks, Viper all the way. But the heads are a good choice. Also the Flometrics is an F&B.
The lightning killer package is great, however it now comes ith the 210X. If you are planning on adding a blower, than maybe think ahead and get the 220, or a blower speced cam. Also, you might as well go ahead and get the Cometics now, save tearing it down again.
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593 Posts
It is all in what you want to achieve in the long run.
Plan your mods etc based upon where you ultimately want to end up speed wise. If you do not plan ahead then you end up doing what I have and tear it down far to often as you aim to go bigger.
So having said that pick what speed you ultimately want to achieve. Then realizing that no one can afford everything all at once you can buy the pieces of the puzzle one mod at a time with the goal of your desired speed in mind.
Based upon where you want to ultimately end up will answer the question as to whether or not you need to look at a supercharger or not.
Note: Supercharging is not as simple as mentioned. Some times it goes on relatively easy and it all works out, tuning is where the cost comes in and requires a lot of knowledge by skilled professionals to get it dialed in safely.
Janesy is a very knowledgeable guy and likely was able to due virtually everything himself which makes it seem easier then it might be for others.
Janesy this is not a knock on your statement but you are capable of doing much more than most folks! Glad I know ya! :biggthump
K.J
Plan your mods etc based upon where you ultimately want to end up speed wise. If you do not plan ahead then you end up doing what I have and tear it down far to often as you aim to go bigger.
So having said that pick what speed you ultimately want to achieve. Then realizing that no one can afford everything all at once you can buy the pieces of the puzzle one mod at a time with the goal of your desired speed in mind.
Based upon where you want to ultimately end up will answer the question as to whether or not you need to look at a supercharger or not.
Note: Supercharging is not as simple as mentioned. Some times it goes on relatively easy and it all works out, tuning is where the cost comes in and requires a lot of knowledge by skilled professionals to get it dialed in safely.
Janesy is a very knowledgeable guy and likely was able to due virtually everything himself which makes it seem easier then it might be for others.
Janesy this is not a knock on your statement but you are capable of doing much more than most folks! Glad I know ya! :biggthump
K.J
I hear ya on the tuning Kev. One good point is that a Vortech kit is probably the best bolt-on kit that I have ever had my hands on, of any kind. ... BUT, spend a little more time with a PAXTON, and you will certainly see the benifits.
But Kev you have to admit that if you wern't sick in the head like me, and have total disregard for Mod-Money, supercharging is that simple. They just bolt on and work out of the box(on a stock motor). But there are always people(me and you, and Jim) that are never happy with "out of the box" performance, and have to have more. And subsequently pull their motors for yearly rebuilds just cause...
I happen to have a magic truck that doesn't care what I do to it, it just always works. :mullet:
But Kev you have to admit that if you wern't sick in the head like me, and have total disregard for Mod-Money, supercharging is that simple. They just bolt on and work out of the box(on a stock motor). But there are always people(me and you, and Jim) that are never happy with "out of the box" performance, and have to have more. And subsequently pull their motors for yearly rebuilds just cause...
I happen to have a magic truck that doesn't care what I do to it, it just always works. :mullet:
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My name is K.J and I am a MODAHOLIC :sorry:janesy said:
Ya you are right dude stick to what they were made for and they work pretty darn good..... but where's the challenge :huh: ..... :jerkit: ..... :woowoo:
aparently you know what your talking about but tend to get jumpy with the keyboard, which happens, whatever. He has a SHAKER hood which is not supercharger friendly, second the F&B throttle bodys he has listed for 200 dollars more than what Dan sells them for.janesy said:
Later I'm heading out :beer:
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389 Posts
Even though I'm driving on a KRC 408 motor right now, I don't feel the Lightning Killer is a good deal. Most of the kit is in accessories that really aren't going to do much. Lets take a look at it:
The Flometrics throttle body It costs $200 more than Dan Arcand's work, and it isn't going to flow any better. It just looks super cool. Stick to the guy who makes his bread and butter money doing throttle bodies all night long.
The M-1 is a must. Skip their "extrude hone" option, it doesn't help anything.
Comp Cams 1.6 Stainless roller rocker kit I wouldn't use this on the 5.9. Rumor has it that they are adapting Ford rockers for this kit, and that throws the valvetrain geometry off. I can't say I doubt it because a quick browse through the Comp catalog shows only one set of roller rockers, and those are shaft mount rockers for the LA motors. Go with Harland Sharp 1.6 rockers. They're about $150 cheaper and they are designed specifically for the Dodge Magnum motor.
KRC Performance Kam Calibration Just send your PCM to Dave at B&G and save $40.
Positive Performance Headers There are a lot better headers out there for the money. You should try and find some Borla or Kenne Bell mid-length headers, or search out some full length ones instead of the PPH. Shorties make the sound better but thats about it. The real gains are to be had by going to a dual exhaust with a cat-delete or at least a race cat.
Mopar Converter as others have said, this mod isn't really worth it. Its simply the stock converter with a change to the fins. I forget exactly what it is, but you're simply not getting the integrity that you would from a TCI or Viper converter.
Heat treated NASCAR pushrods They're nothing more than Comp Magnum hardened pushrods. I have them in my truck, drop shipped from Comp on a KRC order.
Fel Pro 1008 Performance Head Gaskets I'd spend the extra $60 or $70 and get the Cometics MLS gaskets. Just remember to use copper sealant before you install them. Don't ask me how I found that out.
That leaves the actual meat of the package, the heads and cam. Here's where your real power is going to come from, not the accessories mentioned above. KRC factors a price of $1899 into their "Lightning Killer" package for a set of what they call "2.02 Street Port heads". Since the bare R/T head castings are going for around $1000/pair shipped, and built heads add about $400 to that price, they're offering their head work for $500? Sorry but you're going to get what you pay for, and KRC isn't exactly known for having killer head design.
How about the cam? Looking at the raw data they list for the cam, 210/220-512/512 110 I see a few things I would do differently. The duration figures are too mild, and there's a 10 degree difference between the intake and exhaust duration. The lift figures are very conservative as well. You could have a much better cam in there for the money.
So is this a good package for $4799? No. I think KRC did a good job of putting together a marketable group of parts that will dress up the motor and give you a modest increase in performance, but its no deal. You could get much better results throwing a 150 shot of nitrous on, and doing gears/stall/traction aids for about $1300. If you're set on spending the money and taking your truck to the next level like it seems you want to do, I would leave out some of the less necessary parts and put the money back into the heads and cam choice. Then you can spray it as well.
You can get an excellent set of R/T heads from a couple of good vendors out there for $2499. You get what you pay for when it comes to this stuff, believe me. Try Shady Dell or Southeast Performance.
Order a set of 1.6 Harland Sharp non-adjustable rockers for $300. Add the Cometics gaskets for $125. Have your vendor or builder do the math and come up with the proper length pushrods, or get an adjustable pushrod and do it yourself. Then go directly to Comp and ask them for their Magnum hardened pushrods in the appropriate length. $100. Get the Mopar roller lifters, alignment yokes, and holdown spider for another $170. Order the M-1 with install kit for $400. Finally, make sure you have a builder who knows motors, does their own head configuration, and matches the cam to your heads and your particular application. $350.
So far, we're at just over $3900, which leaves us almost $900 to play with. Go get a set of 4.56 gears, and then send your PCM directly to B&G to raise the shift points and rev limiter, and fatten up the fuel curve.
So with all that added up, for the same money you're going to run rings around that LK package.
The Flometrics throttle body It costs $200 more than Dan Arcand's work, and it isn't going to flow any better. It just looks super cool. Stick to the guy who makes his bread and butter money doing throttle bodies all night long.
The M-1 is a must. Skip their "extrude hone" option, it doesn't help anything.
Comp Cams 1.6 Stainless roller rocker kit I wouldn't use this on the 5.9. Rumor has it that they are adapting Ford rockers for this kit, and that throws the valvetrain geometry off. I can't say I doubt it because a quick browse through the Comp catalog shows only one set of roller rockers, and those are shaft mount rockers for the LA motors. Go with Harland Sharp 1.6 rockers. They're about $150 cheaper and they are designed specifically for the Dodge Magnum motor.
KRC Performance Kam Calibration Just send your PCM to Dave at B&G and save $40.
Positive Performance Headers There are a lot better headers out there for the money. You should try and find some Borla or Kenne Bell mid-length headers, or search out some full length ones instead of the PPH. Shorties make the sound better but thats about it. The real gains are to be had by going to a dual exhaust with a cat-delete or at least a race cat.
Mopar Converter as others have said, this mod isn't really worth it. Its simply the stock converter with a change to the fins. I forget exactly what it is, but you're simply not getting the integrity that you would from a TCI or Viper converter.
Heat treated NASCAR pushrods They're nothing more than Comp Magnum hardened pushrods. I have them in my truck, drop shipped from Comp on a KRC order.
Fel Pro 1008 Performance Head Gaskets I'd spend the extra $60 or $70 and get the Cometics MLS gaskets. Just remember to use copper sealant before you install them. Don't ask me how I found that out.
That leaves the actual meat of the package, the heads and cam. Here's where your real power is going to come from, not the accessories mentioned above. KRC factors a price of $1899 into their "Lightning Killer" package for a set of what they call "2.02 Street Port heads". Since the bare R/T head castings are going for around $1000/pair shipped, and built heads add about $400 to that price, they're offering their head work for $500? Sorry but you're going to get what you pay for, and KRC isn't exactly known for having killer head design.
How about the cam? Looking at the raw data they list for the cam, 210/220-512/512 110 I see a few things I would do differently. The duration figures are too mild, and there's a 10 degree difference between the intake and exhaust duration. The lift figures are very conservative as well. You could have a much better cam in there for the money.
So is this a good package for $4799? No. I think KRC did a good job of putting together a marketable group of parts that will dress up the motor and give you a modest increase in performance, but its no deal. You could get much better results throwing a 150 shot of nitrous on, and doing gears/stall/traction aids for about $1300. If you're set on spending the money and taking your truck to the next level like it seems you want to do, I would leave out some of the less necessary parts and put the money back into the heads and cam choice. Then you can spray it as well.
You can get an excellent set of R/T heads from a couple of good vendors out there for $2499. You get what you pay for when it comes to this stuff, believe me. Try Shady Dell or Southeast Performance.
Order a set of 1.6 Harland Sharp non-adjustable rockers for $300. Add the Cometics gaskets for $125. Have your vendor or builder do the math and come up with the proper length pushrods, or get an adjustable pushrod and do it yourself. Then go directly to Comp and ask them for their Magnum hardened pushrods in the appropriate length. $100. Get the Mopar roller lifters, alignment yokes, and holdown spider for another $170. Order the M-1 with install kit for $400. Finally, make sure you have a builder who knows motors, does their own head configuration, and matches the cam to your heads and your particular application. $350.
So far, we're at just over $3900, which leaves us almost $900 to play with. Go get a set of 4.56 gears, and then send your PCM directly to B&G to raise the shift points and rev limiter, and fatten up the fuel curve.
So with all that added up, for the same money you're going to run rings around that LK package.
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although our man Chuck has some good points listed there, I would like to make another point about the 210X cam because I know it is a very popular camshaft between a lot of R/T owners and I don't want people getting the wrong idea because this is a really great cam.Chuck said:
Sure, it's a mild cam, but this is also the 3rd cam I've ran in my R/T and certainly won't be the last for that fact. But so far, this is the best cam I've run to date. The first cam was stock, so I can be along with the millions of people so say "that cam blows ass and has zero powerband in comparison to aftermarket 360 cams." My second cam was decent, sounded INSANE, but did not run insane. It's bark was way worse than its bite. More problems with vacuum and bogging than I care to remember and ALWAYS ALWAYS threw check engine lights. I do not know what the specs were on it because I got it from a buddy for $50, but the cam did not work right and it had to get junked.
Now this brings me to my 210X. This cam has a mild idle for starters, and although its mostly my exhaust setup, I get people coming up to me every day asking what I have in the thing. I get more compliments on how the R/T sounds than I do on how it looks. For instance, took my buddy here in KS for his first ride in the R/T. This kid knows his cars and is never impressed with anything anyone ever shows him. If it ain't the best and doesn't belong to him, he don't care. Lets just say, he was impressed and couldn't stop talking about how it sounded and the burnouts and power and what not. So aside from that, although it has mild numbers, I wouldn't let this cam fool you. The positive side to the cam is that it is incredibly streetable while still being pretty badass and not throwing a CEL every two minutes because the PCM doesn't recognize the parameters. And it's got a pretty decent powerband as well -- hits 6K on the tach REAL FAST. Sure it doesn't have the lope of a 220 with high lift, but the thing has balls. Oh, and did I mention I get 17.9mpg on the highway @70mph (yeah, I was keeping track on my 1600 mile excursion to Kansas). :woot:
Bottom Line: Yeah, the day will come with it comes time for the supercharger, but that day is far and distant still. That'll require another cam with wider LSA. But for now, I wanted a naturally aspirated cam, I went with the 210X and have been happy thus far with the results.
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In the context of "Lightning Killer", though, I thought it was the wrong choice for the package. They have the customer sending in the PCM for a "KamKal" reflash, so you might as well go on to a tougher cam, at least with a bit more duration and lift. :beer:na360rt said:
1.6 is 1.6 regardless of whether they are listed as Ford, Dodge or Chevy. Look at the parts lists of some of the manufacturers and you will see the same part number used for different makes. The ony time the "geometry" changes is when you go to a different ratio i.e. 1.7. Studs are pretty much just studs and the only thing you have to worry about is that they are right length. It doesn't matter whether they are 3/8x3/8 or 5/16x3/8. KRC did their research and came up a very workable combination of parts. I have no idea why Comp won't put together the same package.
The draw back to non-adjustable rockers is that you have the extra step of getting a test rod to determine the exact length. If you change cams, lifters or want to use them on a different engine you have to do it all over again. The up side is that you don't have to worry about the adjustment coming loose.
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389 Posts
But if the parts would work, Comp would show that part number for 92-later 5.2/5.9 motors. They don't, and Comp will not offer any support to a customer who decides to use their rockers in a motor that isn't covered in the parts list. You are looking at the rocker ratio as if thats the only thing that matters and it isn't. If the 3.2 motor in a BMW had 1.6 rockers in it, do you think that they would work in the Magnum?N56629 said:
Valve angles between platforms can differ slightly or greatly, but they do differ.
The valve angle for a set of LSX 1.6 rockers is very different from a small block Chevy, Dodge, or Ford. The valve angle for the Magnum is different from the Ford 5.0 - not enough to keep the motor from running if you use 5.0 rockers in a Magnum, but enough to cause very serious wear on the valve guides. You ought to talk to people who have several thousand miles on a set of KRC R/T heads and see how many using the KRC roller rocker kit on those heads have had worn valve guides, pushrods, and rod guideplates.
Comp won't do a set of proper roller rockers for the Magnum because they don't think there is a market there. Harland Sharp has already done it and it works. Not only that, but it works for $150 less.
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