[punisher1130]

At this point in time I am more focused on trying to save for the axle swap, i'm not really in any rush for the motor swap. I do believe you are right on the t-case, i think i looked up the wrong part but i'm not set on a particular one just want one that takes normal gear oil. I did think about converting over to passenger side pumpkin at one point but seeing as i cant do everything in 1 shot so i'm a bit stuck with that.

For the longest time i was set on going with the 4bt with the 4L80E, truthfully i haven't fully gave up on that one yet, but with the donor truck for the LS i wouldn't let that motor near my truck till it was rebuilt, to me that's engine swap 101 no matter what engine i decide to use and that is something i can do my self, same with the transmission so that's money saved. Really all i need a shop for is to wire everything up and do any fab work.

I know the shop will do what they need for a sale but in this situation the owner ran into me at autozone and tried to buy my truck before offering the LS swap, before that i was trying to figure out how to do the 4bt swap on the cheap which i was getting no where on.

All and all the drivetrain swap i'm in no rush for and i am still open to going down the diesel side but for this moment i'm just wanting the bottom ball joints done and the SAS done, as long as my drive-train holds i'm good with what i got, just hate that damn kegger intake.

 

[RXT]

At this point in time I am more focused on trying to save for the axle swap, i'm not really in any rush for the motor swap. I do believe you are right on the t-case, i think i looked up the wrong part but i'm not set on a particular one just want one that takes normal gear oil. I did think about converting over to passenger side pumpkin at one point but seeing as i can't do everything in 1 shot so i'm a bit stuck with that.

Well, this is a new one on me. I never ran across anyone who wants to choose a t-case based on gear oil. The 205 does use gear oil, but its also because it's a gear driven transfer case. Most chain driven t-cases use ATF (Exception for the NP203) and the reason is because ATF is thin enough to lubricate the chain. A thicker oil wouldn't lube the chain properly and it would wear out. Theres nothing wrong with any of them, some are stronger than others, but most work as advertised.

For the longest time i was set on going with the 4bt with the 4L80E, truthfully i haven't fully gave up on that one yet,

At one time I had the same basic plan. (With exception of transmission choice) Sadly 4BTs aren't cheap any more. They've gotten so popular that they are commanding some pretty high prices, but if you search around, you can get lucky. There is also a side benefit, these engines were designed with an expected service life of 350K miles, so a rebuild may not be necessary right away. In my case I couldn't find an engine within my budget, but I did have a "Plan B". I already had a 6BT just sitting in my backyard, in another project that had stalled years ago. So I used it instead. Of course it meant I had to build the truck bigger, but that was no issue at all, other than it was a tight fit. The 4BT is definitely ideal, if you can find one. In the world of diesels there are a ton of them out there and many of them are ones most people didn't know existed. There are 4 cylinders by Hercules, Perkins, Case, and others. Theres a sweet modern turbo diesel used in some Jeep Liberty's called VM Motori, and thats not all. If you have access to big truck junk yards and marine salvage yards, they are full of diesels of all different shapes and sizes.

All and all the drivetrain swap i'm in no rush for and i am still open to going down the diesel side but for this moment i'm just wanting the bottom ball joints done and the SAS done, as long as my drive-train holds i'm good with what i got, just hate that damn kegger intake.

A solid axle swap can get a bit pricey too, but it definitely resolves a known weakness in the Dakota, the problem is, it's not a bolt in swap and will require some serious fabrication. But i do think you're attacking this in the right way. Deal with the SAS and do the engine later.

In my case, I also needed a front axle with a driver's side diff. But instead of buying a "Ford" axle, I bought a "Dodge" axle instead (A Dana 60 to be precise) With most modern 4x4s being built with a t-case w/ driver's side drop, and SAS becoming ever popular, the prices on a Ford Dana 60 have been climbing. To save a bit of money, I bought the undesirable Dodge version instead, knowing that I'd completely rebuild anything I got anyway. None of it was cheap. I spent a ton of cash just to build the axles. Now, if you're still serious, I know of a shop in Zephyrhills, Fl that specialize in this kind of stuff.

Ed

 

[punisher1130]

I refer to t-cases that take gear oil mainly because i am a bit divided between the 205 and a atlas twin stick, 205 is more popular so service is easy if something breaks but i like what the twin sticks can do for digs plus they have good gear ratios, either way i do want a gear one specifically for the strength and durability they have, but its like you said they all do as advertised.

Yeah i know the 4bt is if growing in popularity and running as much as a used car even for a bare engine, one of the reasons why i am looking at the LS swap, for the price of a good 4bt i could have a donor truck and rebuild the motor, i did think about the 6bt but its too tight for my comfort and I've seen all the builds that used them. One motor i thought of using was one of those Isuzu turbo diesels, my old work truck had one and that little motor was so good i stopped the truck in the middle of a pit ( note i am talking about a NPR flat bed 2wd automatic) that i sunk into the mud under my own weight and that truck not only backed up but moved out without trying!! Loved that little truck and thought about using that engine, biggest thing i dug up on it is to make sure the turbo is on the passenger side if i did use it .

I know the SAS can be pricey but i did get luck and found a shop in Sanford that specializes in SAS on everything under the sun. The shop is called Plan B fab, they have there own CNC machine so they do everything in house, the owner said they can do my truck for $4500 and that is covering absolutely everything including sourcing the axles and fresh brakes, even keeping the height my truck is sitting at now but i'm thinking a couple inches higher to get better flew may not be too bad.

 

[RXT]

I refer to t-cases that take gear oil mainly because i am a bit divided between the 205 and a atlas twin stick, 205 is more popular so service is easy if something breaks but i like what the twin sticks can do for digs plus they have good gear ratios, either way i do want a gear one specifically for the strength and durability they have, but its like you said they all do as advertised.

I would normally pick the 205 because they can still be found used, for relatively cheap. OTOH, you'll be buying an all new Atlas. I don't think you can find too many on the used market (But I could be wrong) If you do a Ford Dana driver side diff, you'll need a t-case with driver's side drop. Well there were 205s with a driver's side drop, and only Ford had them, but the last time Ford used them, was back in the mid to late 70s. (The Chevy and Dodge 205 were used for several more years) Fortunately Ford sold a lot of trucks back then, but I think these are slowly getting harder to find. With the Atlas, they are still making them, so I don't think theres an issue with finding the right one. It's just that the price is likely to be much more, but you also have better gear ratios in the Atlas (Its possible to re-gear a 205 -at added cost, btw it's also possible to twin stick a 205)

I used to own a divorced passenger drop 205 that I got out of an old International, and the thing was built like an anvil, but I couldn't use it with my Dakota build. For that I just used a newer NP241HD. Which is rated for use behind the V10 and Cummins. Now I know it has an aluminum housing and is chain driven, but they do hold up to really big torque that a Cummins can dish out, and the nice thing is, they can be found dirt cheap and they are still being made. Another side benefit is, they have a decent low range gear, but they can't be twin sticked. (But I really don't have a use for front dig only)

Yeah i know the 4bt is if growing in popularity and running as much as a used car even for a bare engine, one of the reasons why i am looking at the LS swap, for the price of a good 4bt i could have a donor truck and rebuild the motor, i did think about the 6bt but its too tight for my comfort and I've seen all the builds that used them. One motor i thought of using was one of those Isuzu turbo diesels, my old work truck had one and that little motor was so good i stopped the truck in the middle of a pit ( note i am talking about a NPR flat bed 2wd automatic) that i sunk into the mud under my own weight and that truck not only backed up but moved out without trying!! Loved that little truck and thought about using that engine, biggest thing i dug up on it is to make sure the turbo is on the passenger side if i did use it .

If you find one, snatch it up immediately. Don't turn down any if the turbo or anything else isn't exactly how you want it, because these engines have tons of configuration options available and moving stuff around isn't too difficult. These are fantastic engines, and surprisingly powerful, but I'm predicting that these will become the next big swap engine option, as swappers begin looking for more affordable alternatives to the pricey 4BT. The real nice thing about the Isuzu diesel is, theres still tens of thousands of them out there and you could find whole donor trucks selling for decent prices. You can't even buy a used bread truck cheap any more, because the secret is out about the popularity of the 4BT. Those used truck brokers now think they are sitting on gold.

The 6BT is also growing in popularity and those prices are climbing up too, but not as quickly as the 4BT prices. I bought mine several years ago for another project I was building. Sadly the project stalled and it sat for about ten years before I decided to use it in my Dakota.

Heres what it looks like now;

It is a tight fit, which was expected. The rear valve cover is only a half inch from the firewall, and theres barely enough room for a radiator. But it's doable. In my case, I'm putting the radiator in the bed. I happened upon a used Griffin aluminum racing radiator in good shape and I couldn't pass up the price. The thing is about 6 inches thick, so it's not gonna fit under the hood with that Cummins in there too. So in the bed it will go.

I know the SAS can be pricey but i did get luck and found a shop in Sanford that specializes in SAS on everything under the sun. The shop is called Plan B fab, they have there own CNC machine so they do everything in house, the owner said they can do my truck for $4500 and that is covering absolutely everything including sourcing the axles and fresh brakes, even keeping the height my truck is sitting at now but i'm thinking a couple inches higher to get better flew may not be too bad.

Thats great, hopefully it happens, would love to see it on it's new legs

Ed

 

[punisher1130]

I didn't know the 205 can be converted to twin stick, ill have to remember that. I know the atlas would have to be new, off the top of my head i don't think any truck had one from factory which is why i lean more to the 205, but ill be happy with any t-case that can give me good low range so i can dig out if i get stuck, front dig is useful if i have cant get a good bite in the rear. I will look into the 241HD, as long as it has good low range i can live without twin sticks.

Honestly i would prefer the Isuzu over the 4bt mainly because i know what all it comes in, its real quiet for a diesel, crazy efficient and built very well, I've known sever that has gone over 500k miles without needing a rebuild and still run like new. i don't remember which motor is which but 1 is mechanical fuel system and the other is electric, as for which side the turbo is on i believe that depends on the application its used in or ordered in, I've never noticed much difference on that but as for which side the turbo is on it wont matter since i have something special in mind for that.

Yeah that's a tight fit alright, little to tight for me personally but looks like you got it set up good. What year is your Dak? from that fire wall it looks like a older model. Yeah i think that radiator will keep that monster cool lol.


It was suppose to be done a couple months ago but earlier in the year life got in the way and i lost my window to get the loan i needed to get it done so it will have to wait till i get my bills under control.

 

[RXT]

I didn't know the 205 can be converted to twin stick, ill have to remember that. I know the atlas would have to be new, off the top of my head i don't think any truck had one from factory which is why i lean more to the 205, but ill be happy with any t-case that can give me good low range so i can dig out if i get stuck, front dig is useful if i have cant get a good bite in the rear. I will look into the 241HD, as long as it has good low range i can live without twin sticks.

The Atlas is an aftermarket item, it was never offered as a factory unit. The 241HD has a 2:71 ratio low range, not too shabby. Now if you go with a diesel, you probably won't need low range for most wheeling because these engines produce quite a bit of torque. In my case, i would suspect that the only times I would use low is for pulling stumps, and yanking out really stuck trucks. As for the 241HD those have wider drive chains compared to the 241. Thats what gives them the strength

Yeah that's a tight fit alright, little to tight for me personally but looks like you got it set up good. What year is your Dak? from that fire wall it looks like a older model. Yeah i think that radiator will keep that monster cool lol.

It's a 99. I was a lot like yours except not lifted quite as high, and mine was Solar Yellow, but everything else appears very similar….. This is what it looks like now;

The cab rotted out, so I replaced it with an '01 quad cab. I had the Cummins shoe horned in. Dana 60 front and Dana 70 rear. 41" Pitbull Rocker radials …oh and my wallet is a whole lot lighter. Next time you're on 441 and see a guy standing there on a street corner with a sign, that will be me, trying to finance this thing.

Ed

 

[punisher1130]

The low range will come in handy for climbing situations ill run in to as well and that's the main reason i want a good low range even with a diesel. Truck looks good, i like what you did with the bed very simple and clean. My truck really isn't that big, all it has is 3in body, rough country 5.5 suspension (3in basically) and 33s, i sit roughly the same level as stock full sized trucks. Rust isn't that bad on it yet but i do have a couple spots that are a little hidden. I would upload a picture of my truck as it is today but the website isn't letting me uploading anything. Look at my profile picture and you will see how she sits right now.

 

[RXT]

Truck looks good, i like what you did with the bed very simple and clean.

Thanks. It's not finished yet, theres still a ton of stuff left to do.
I decided to build the bed when the junk yard that sold me the cab wanted too much for the bed from the same truck. And rather than build a flat bed, I decided to pattern my new bed after an old utiline bed (Thats step side in Dodge speak) The fenders have to be bolted back on to complete the look.

My truck really isn't that big, all it has is 3in body, rough country 5.5 suspension (3in basically) and 33s, i sit roughly the same level as stock full sized trucks.

It's big for a relatively stock Dakota. I had just a 3" body lift and I cranked the torsion bars 2 inches. I was running 32" Dunlop Mud rovers. Yours was certainly taller than mine before all the changes.

Rust isn't that bad on it yet but i do have a couple spots that are a little hidden. I would upload a picture of my truck as it is today but the website isn't letting me uploading anything. Look at my profile picture and you will see how she sits right now.

It's still a great stance

Ed

 

[punisher1130]

Nice, i kinda fancy the idea of taking one of those military cargo trailers and using it to replace my bed to get something like a military style, never seen that on a dakota so i figure it would be neat to do ( i am big on military things on certain subjects). I guess your right in that sense, my truck is big for its size but from my understanding its a perfect size for what i am planning doing so i never really thought much about it. Thanks I am debating on keeping the body lift or not after i do the SAS so its all suspension and tires giving the lift plus the rock sliders i designed would look better with the body lift gone, but ill worry about that when i get to that bridge. Though now that i am thinking about it, with the armor i am designing for the truck a diesel would yield more useful do to the added weight of everything, guess i overlooked that.

 

[RXT]

Nice, i kinda fancy the idea of taking one of those military cargo trailers and using it to replace my bed to get something like a military style, never seen that on a dakota so i figure it would be neat to do ( i am big on military things on certain subjects). I guess your right in that sense, my truck is big for its size but from my understanding its a perfect size for what i am planning doing so i never really thought much about it. Thanks I am debating on keeping the body lift or not after i do the SAS so its all suspension and tires giving the lift plus the rock sliders i designed would look better with the body lift gone, but ill worry about that when i get to that bridge. Though now that i am thinking about it, with the armor i am designing for the truck a diesel would yield more useful do to the added weight of everything, guess i overlooked that.

If you like the military look, you'll love this because thats exactly where I'm going with it. I have a few things to still add, then I'll be painting it OD green. Yes, I've seen the cargo trailer-converted-to-a-bed idea, but I didn't think it was going to work in my case. When Dodge designed the quad cab version, they kept the same basic frame/chassis of the extended cab w/6ft bed. The quad cab added several inches to the length of the cab, so for the bed, they shortened it to about a 5ft long bed. None of the military trailers come that short, which meant that I'd have to cut one down, but the complication of cutting one down is the location of the wheel openings and fenders. (Not all trailers use removable fenders) Well I love the old "step side" look and figured well why not? I know that I was already losing bed space with the shorter bed, whats another few cubic feet? (I'm probably gonna buy or build a trailer -military themed- if I "need" a bed)

In my case, I kept the body lift. I know a lot of people don't like them, but they don't bother me because I know they serve a purpose when alternatives don't exist. For mine, I wanted the extra under hood clearance for the Cummins and the transmission. In fact theres a lot more room for transmission access, if I ever need to pull it. As a side note, when I built the bed, I didn't put any kind of body lift on it so although it's narrower than a factory bed, it's much deeper. As mentioned, I'm putting the rad in the bed. I'm planning to mount it high, pre-runner style so as not to take up too much floor space….Anyways, thats the plan. I'm hoping I can get it all done soon, I'm having withdrawals from wheeling'

Hopefully, you'll realize your dreams.

Ed

 

[punisher1130]

Right on, I'm not entirely sure the military bed would work cause of the width, i think it would be wider than our frames but that is a fairly easy fix, but as i said before, making it you own makes it that much more unique and self pride when staking your claim to it. I've heard different stories on body lifts on good and bad, personally i like the benefits of it plus my sliders would make better steps with it as well ( i deal with a lot of short chicks lol) but the down side to them is if you get into a wreck the body lift is a fail point which for me is good enough concern to consider removing it since i drive it every day but its another one of those '' not that important'' deals.

I know how you feel, its been too long since i took mine out but i cant do anything till the lower ball joints are dealt with but it all takes time. Hope you get your truck running again soon.

 

[RXT]

Over the years I've read and participated in conversations concerning body lifts. What I have concluded is, once you break it down to the basics, it's just a matter of preferences. And I can tell you that a lot of people just don't like them. Personally I can accept it, I don't necessarily have to agree, but I can accept that there are different opinions. As for my opinion concerning the possibility of a body lift being a "fail point" during an accident, I'm of the opinion that a body lift isn't any more dangerous during an accident than say, a well built suspension lift. Here is why I come to this conclusion. Most body lift manufacturers provide a minimum of grade 5 hardware which is pretty strong. Depending on the thickness of the bolt, grade 5 bolts will typically have pretty substantial strength in three different types of force. Tension, compression and sheer. Sheer is the type of force that a body lift is most likely to experience if the truck is involved in something like a head-on.

http://tinelok.com/grade-5-vs-grade-8-fasteners/

If you look at the chart, a 1/2 inch grade 5 bolt (0.5000 in) has a sheer strength of 14,730 lbs. (I'm using a 1/2 bolt only as an example, I don't recall the actual diameter, you can refer to the chart and make corrections)
The weight of a Dakota, is about 4500lbs, that means a 1/2" grade 5 bolt will sheer under the weight of 3.3 Dakotas! Now consider this, each body bolt isn't carrying the entire weight of a Dakota. It's just carrying the weight of the cab, which is a fraction of the total weight of the truck, and second, your cab has 4 bolts. (6 for a quad cab) The combined total sheer strength for all four bolts is 58,920 lbs. Considering the math, I seriously doubt that the cab will come off the frame in the event of an accident. Thats not to say that the body bolts won't bend. I can tell you that that I once saw a Jeep Wrangler that was involved in a wreck, and it had a body lift on it. Every body bolt was bent and the body did shift forward a little on the frame, but the body didnt leave the frame. That was the least of the damage that Jeep had sustained. The front end was crushed and was probably deemed a total.

I personally don't buy the idea that a well made body lift would be a fail point during an accident. On another note, sadly too many people try to save money by making their own body lifts. They buy a bunch of cheap, China made bolts at their local, nationally owned hardware store and stack a bunch of hockey pucks between the frame and cab. Would I trust this with my life? Nope!

Ed

 

[punisher1130]

Wasn't really that concerned about it, i knew they used heavy bolts for the kits but given the original owner messed this truck up i'm not sure i can trust a lot of what has been done to the truck before me.

This is a little off topic but since you had a 99 that means you had the vacuum blend doors, if you have ever messed with it could you tell me where the dark green line goes to? I have a problem with the blend doors kicking over to defrost at highway speeds and i have narrowed it down to either the control switch or where ever that line goes ( its the only line that would not hold vacuum).

 

[RXT]

I don't mess with them much. What I know is minimal. I know if the thing doesn't work, they usually default to defrost. I know there is a "mode door actuator" that controls the direction the air will take when you switch it to where you want it to blow air, and sometimes this goes bad. I believe it's located on the left side of the suit case (Above the throttle pedal) If you can get up in there, you might be able to check to see if the door actually works or if it's jammed. I don't know where the green vacuum line goes and at present my truck is elsewhere, so I'm unable to take a look. Sorry

Ed

 

[punisher1130]

No worries it was a long shot so i figured id ask. Everything is working other wise, its only on the highway around 70 mph is when it changes over. I can see where the other lines go but that dark green one goes around the back side of the a/c box and i cant see where it goes from there nor can i find any diagrams on the system so i am quickly getting to the point of experimenting which could get expensive.