heres the thread, i was wonderin what you think of my setup, Alpine cda-9856 HU, Memphis MCA-2004 amp for mids n highs, Memphis MC-1000D sub amp, memphis 6.5" component set, and memphis 2 12" dvc 4 ohm M3 wired 2 ohm and bridged to the amp, custom sealed box within some months another custom box dual ports at 52hz. what my main idea fromt he start was sound quality and the subs pound to the point of leakin doors or flexin back glass or 150db's, last time i actually metered my CC dak was with kicker600.2 amp with 2 LA dvc 10"s sealed box, best at 134db epic meter. so what do you think? anything you would change?
AudioNutz
addicted2blue00
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heres the thread, i was wonderin what you think of my setup, Alpine cda-9856 HU, Memphis MCA-2004 amp for mids n highs, Memphis MC-1000D sub amp, memphis 6.5" component set, and memphis 2 12" dvc 4 ohm M3 wired 2 ohm and bridged to the amp, custom sealed box within some months another custom box dual ports at 52hz. what my main idea fromt he start was sound quality and the subs pound to the point of leakin doors or flexin back glass or 150db's, last time i actually metered my CC dak was with kicker600.2 amp with 2 LA dvc 10"s sealed box, best at 134db epic meter. so what do you think? anything you would change?
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with the dakota i've always had good results with facing the ports and subs up. Ported will almost always be louder then sealed when done correctly
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yeah i guess i should have asked that I kinda of assumed that he was going for a daily beater and didn't consider if he was going to compete in either Sq or Spl. Its pretty critical as sq and spl are the exact opposite.
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lil bit of both, be loud and have bass, y i havent went to 15s as the 12s are a lil more accurate, mids and highs i dont care for spl just sq.AudioNutz said:
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52hz seems a little too hight to me... my box is tuned to 30hz...
what size box are you going to use? you could do something like 3ft^3 @ 34hz. i dont see you hitting 150 with this set up though.
what size box are you going to use? you could do something like 3ft^3 @ 34hz. i dont see you hitting 150 with this set up though.
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def not 150 from a 52hz box. i would go with bigtexan and tune it more for 30-40hz. but still not 150db. i would personally go with a setup of 10's. amazing clarity unless your looking for the crazy rediculous bass 10 are real clean and clear. i have 4 alpine type e-10's in my rango off of two kenwood kac-7202 2 ch amps. in two shitty rt prefab boxes, one ported, one sealed, and i hit 143db, u can still get mad bass and clear hits out of tens :mullet:
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long as it sounds good and hits nice to my taste it doesnt matter if it isnt 150s, ive had 10s before, i was blowin them every 2 weeks, just as they would break in, i like 10s, there nice and accurate to what i like but i wanted more power and the deal i got on my M3s i couldnt pass up, the ported at 53 is what i last recalled factory called for the subs while iw as havin a custom box built for extended cab part, i already know you cant have spl and sq, audionutz said hes been into audio since 89, -02 for me- so i figured i'd ask what he thought of it. if i didnt come across the deal on the m3s i wouldve went with 2-4 10"s type Rs dvc with the right power, as i have always loved alpine. heres a few pics of my old setup that i never was put on the meter, at nite the subs were lit up blue from some hidden neons, pics were right before the 2nd amp install.98kadota said:
I keep reading this over and over, but still cannot understand. There must be a language barrier.addicted2blue00 said:
In one single sentence, you seem to change your mind twice. First you want a little bit of both... Then you contradict yourself by saying that you want it to be loud...Then you change your mind again and speak about accuracy, and that you don't care about being loud.
So I'll make an assumption: I assume that since you say that you want Sound Quality twice, but you say you want it loud only once, I'll assume that you really mean that you want it to sound good... So let's talk about Sound Quality...
First, let me say it impossible for me to tell you if your system sounds good unless I actually listen to it. But you asked for my help, so here goes. You've got a good start. The single most important thing that makes up the Sound Quality of a system is the speakers, and their mounting locations. I see that you're using Memphis brand speakers, but from your pictures on your CarDomain page, I really can't tell where the components might be located, nor do I see which model they are. It almost looks like there is a tweeter mounted on the top of your b-pillar, near the headliner. Please tell me more about the mounting locations, and what troubles you might be experiencing. (What is your biggest complaint?)
I'm assuming that you don't like something, because you're asking me what I would improve. So here's something easy... I see that you have 12" subwoofers, but only 6-1/2" components. In my experience, I haven't had a lot of good success trying to get 6-1/2 inch midbass components to "Blend" with 12-inch subwoofers. You might try moving to a different size midbass, to try to "Keep Up" with the subwoofers, and then switching the subwoofers to a stereo configuration instead of mono. (Yes, there is different musical information for left and right)
I wish I could just invite you over for a listening session, so I could point out exactly what I mean by this. (Tell me if you're ever in Chicago)
Next, let's talk about Memphis amplifiers, specifically your subwoofer amplifier. Memphis lists this amplifier as:
300 watts @4-ohm
600 watts @2-ohm
1100 watts @1-ohm
But I see that it's fused at 2X40A, so let's do some math...
Volts X Amps = Watts
Let's assume that you've run 1/0 gauge cable, and you have been able to maintain 12.5 volts at the rear of your interior compartment where the amplifiers, and let's also keep in mind that most amplifiers are less than 50% efficient.
12.5 Volts X 80 Amps X 50% efficiency = 500watts.
Even if your amplifier is rated at 1100 watts, the power supply is only capable of 500 watts.
(Someone will now jump in here, call me a fraud, and tell you that this amp is 80% efficient because it's a class D amp, but tell me what size power cable is going into the amp. Is it 4 guage? You're not getting 800w out of 4 gauge. Let the buyer beware)
Even if it were capable of 80% efficiency, or 800watts, that's MAX power, and not the advertised RMS power. (Nor could you supply that much current with 4 gauge cable)
My point in speaking about your amps here is to open your eyes to what power really means. My amps are rated at 12.5 watts per channel, and I have no need for extra power.
Now tell me where your speakers are mounted, and what your main concerns are, and we'll get to the next level.
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very useful info, i have my 1" tweets mounted in the door panel's power switch part -non power-, and the 6.5 in the door with dynamat, with static tweets like you said at the headliner, i'd actually like to bring the sound from my 6.5s out to where it doesnt sound like all the sound is in the floorboard. since you mentioned about the gauge of wire to the amp it is 4, i thought bout atleast goin to a 2 but the shop i got it from said the 4 was plenty, about the spl i dont really care about since i dont compete any but i would like to be in the 140s at least. i do care for the SQ since i have a ps2 n tv hooked up to all of the stereo, yrs before i just wanted SQ system in my dak but movin onto tvs and all i dont really have a clue about, so thats some more info i'd like to know of. i actually wanted alpine components but money was short so i settled with memphis, i had have something cause the 3 yr old 3 way premiers i had busted once the 2nd amp got hooked up.
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i agree with AudioNutz about the power issues.i went from 4 memphis mc 2000d's to two of the memphis 4k watt amps and four 15 m3's and i have 0 gauge power and ground wires and you'll never get all your efficiency out of your amps.not sure about the 'kotas,but from my experiences 'rangos are horrible to get good sound out of.i've been through probably 5 boxes.all trial and error.regular ports,slot ports,aero ports;been through them all.you might also wanna try a different box type if did decide you wanted it a lil' louder.from myself being in the lanes competing it seems to me that alpine subs might be more for SQ as you're looking for and the memphis geared more toward the SPL end of things.i do see alot of alpine gear in the SQ lanes.i'm more SPL than anything,but i have entered 2 SQ competitions just because alot of people seem to think that an Spl vehicle can't win a SQ competition.and i did win both.with that being said is not to brag,but to show that it can be done.my rango is a daily driver,so i wanted clean sound to go with the boom too(i have the same type of gear you have the ps2,4 screens,dvd,etc).so you can have both with some work.good luck with your setup.
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A 150 db on the termlab sensor will be a mighty tough task with 1100 watts not impossible but tough. If spl were the main thing here i've worked with a couple Dakota's and the they both seemed to like to peak between 50-55hz depending on how much space the box was taking up in the cab. Now From a strait out spl standpoint 45-48 hz is where i attempted to tune the boxes. So from my work with the dakota's i would say that on the sensor that a 52 hz box will but up a better number then the 30 hz tuned box. However with all that being said he's not concerned with squeezing every single fraction of a db out of the system but what he is doing is wanting a "loud to the ear" system and a system tuned around 30-35 hz is going to be louder to the ear then a system tuned at 52 hz, and not mention its going to be way less peaky (hence the point of spl is to play one tone as loud as possible). Now if this is me and i wanted what u want i would be making a box thats about 3 cubes for each subs and tuned to 30-35. Now he said for mids and highs that he doesn't really care about spl just sq, well thats a good thing beause i don't no to many people putting up good spl numbers with mids and highs. But ill leave the sq side of this to audionutz, he seems to be able to wax intellegently about that subject where as im all about spl
Old wive's tale, completely inaccurate.addicted2blue00 said:
The epic meter is outdated and completely inaccurate as well.
Anyways, for daily driving... listening to music... and especially when you mention SQ... I would recommend a tuning in the mid-low 30's. I like 33hz daily personally.
If you want SPL, like STRAIGHT spl... then 52hz tuning would work. Do you have any sound deadening done? I would still recommend something around 43-46hz for a stock SPL build. The deadener will raise the RF of your vehicle if you have any done.
In my Dak, with my TermLab, I've found that daily the loudest ported enclosure is Subwoofers up, port up. With the Port on the drivers side. This is the loudest to the driver.
For pure SPL, it's a different story.
nG
Now we're getting somewhere! It sounds like your imaging cues are too low, and/or you have a phasing problem.addicted2blue00 said:
First, let's talk about the rear speakers... Humans don't hear the same from the rear, so rear speakers are much less important than the front speakers. I would suggest turning them off, as to not disrupt what's up front. (Or switch them to a really low wattage source, like the power from the Alpine head unit.)
Second, That free's up two of your amplifier channels. Try switching to a "Bi-Amp" situation with your front speakers. Power the tweeters with two of the channels, and power the mids with the other two channels of your four channel amplifier. YOU WILL NEED AN ELECTRONIC CROSSOVER if you try this, or you will blow the tweeters. This will give you adjustability to get some of that balance, or "Blending" that I mentioned earlier. Your midbass will sound cleaner, and your imaging cues can move up from the floor a bit.
Third, move your front tweeters above the belt line of the vehicle. If you want the sound to get off the floor, get the speakers away from the floor. They should be above the belt line, but slightly BELOW eye level. (Don't get near the headliner with tweeters)
Fourth, you're going to think I'm on crack here, but you have a phasing problem if your imaging cues are low. Wire the Right front Midrange/Midbass driver backwards, or "out of phase". (leave the left in-phase) I know that EVERY audio-geek on the planet says that you will loose low frequency extension, but this is why you "Bi-Amped" your fronts, so you can turn these up if you need it. Wire them out of phase, and notice that your image will jump to be much higher than it was before. (Your ankles didn't need to hear anyway)
Fifth, I'll jump on the band wagon with everyone else, and tell you to lower the tuning frequency of the subwoofer cabinet. Find out what the FS of the woofers are, and then port the box to that exact frequency.
These five things can be done for ZERO or very little money, so I would start here first, and then tell us how much budget you want to free up for some serious changes.
Yeah? Plenty for what? I bet that's the largest they sell. 2 gauge is Minimum for 600 watts, you're above that, so go larger.addicted2blue00 said:
You're not going to get there with this equipment.addicted2blue00 said:
Forgive me... What does a PS2 and TV have to do with music and Sound Quality? I'm not making the connection here.addicted2blue00 said:
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the Ps2 and screens and what not have nothing to do with Sq. i just think he was mentioning those things to get the point out there of what kinda of setup this was going to be
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once i get the box redone and built right, imma go to tunning the subs in but i have no rear speakers so i had my front door speakers and tweets hooked up like you mentioned to do, it did sound good but also like you said theyll blow and prob the reason i went through 5 pair lol think imma stick a pair of static tweets in until i get a few thigns out of the way to fix this, the mention of the ps2 and tv was what the best way to have this actually hooked up to get the best for the sound part as SQ for this or something more of surround sound maybe. the other day while i was pullin my console out to refinish it i got to messin witht he ground on the sub amp, from ?2 1/2' wire maybe to a 7" long, so i made the ground a lil better and it does pound some better, but while doin this i came across of rememberin the biggest wire i cant fit into the amp is 4awg -maxed- so how can i fit 0awg into the hole?
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the amp is mc1000d memphis, i understand with new subs you may smell some burnin -break in- but today i got a chance to really listen to it since i redid the ground and now im startin to smell the burn again, nothin like a burnin voice coil, it does seem to hit better, ive looked around a few places and cant find any reducers, i would love to get my hand on some, most of the time ppl say trim the wire to fit -BS i think- on the ground to get the best fit i took a 4 awg o-ring end and bent up a lil to act as a reducer which did work.
Here:
http://www.cardomain.com/item/STIS04ADAPT
You really don't NEED 1/0 for only a 1000rms amplifier. But it won't hurt....
nG
http://www.cardomain.com/item/STIS04ADAPT
You really don't NEED 1/0 for only a 1000rms amplifier. But it won't hurt....
nG
It's not a 1000 watt amplifier. It's a 300 watt amplifier, and a 200 watt amplifier. (At 4-ohms... He's asking for Sound Quality)ngsm13 said:
...And you're right. It won't hurt. Instead of the reducers, I would suggest running the 1/0 gauge from the battery to the area where the amps are mounted, and then use a 1/0 to multiple 4 gauge power distribution block. (One for power, one for ground) There's nothing wrong with the reducers, but since we're powering two amps here, you will need to distribute power anyway.
Ok, here I go confused again. Do you still want Sound Quality, or do you now want Surround Sound? These are two very different things. Sound Quality is the accurate reproduction of a live performance, while Surround Sound is the name for a variety of techniques for altering the sound of audio playback by recording additional sound channels that can be reproduced on additional speakers to fool the listener into thinking they are at an artificial performance.addicted2blue00 said:
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