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Mestra

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
ok i wanted to know how hard would it be to do a t56 swap in place of the stock 5spd with the 4.7 what kind of money am i looking at? im really thinking about doing this because i just have that feeling my trannys gonna go out soon. just want to know :)

Thanks in advance
 
#3 ·
Mestra said:
ok i wanted to know how hard would it be to do a t56 swap in place of the stock 5spd with the 4.7 what kind of money am i looking at? im really thinking about doing this because i just have that feeling my trannys gonna go out soon. just want to know :)

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
It's not that hard. Find a Viper T56, discard bellhousing. Contact Darkhorseperformance, he can sell you the stuff you need:

McLeod adapter plate (takes the T56 to a GM/Muncie pattern)
Lakewood bellhousing (takes the GM/Mucie pattern to a small block Mopar)
McLeod clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel.
You'll need a new (smaller tooth) flywheel. The stocker is the larger one and doesn't fit into the bellhousing. I can't remember the tooth count offhand, but I think it's 130 versus 143. McLeod makes a nice lightweight aluminum flywheel for the new Hemi. The 4.7 uses the same bolt pattern and flywheel. (You'll need to use Ford Pinto 10mm flywheel bolts from ARP. The stockers are too short.)
Internal slave cylinder/throwout bearing, etc.
Also get the B&M shifter for the Ford Mustang Cobra and ditch the offset Viper shifter.

Other notes: Stock starter works fine. You'll need to slightly modify the block plate (thin steel between trans and engine, no biggie). You can also probably use the stock master cylinder, but I modified mine to use the Wilwood one I received from Darkhorseperformance. McLeod now has a twin disc clutch available; they didn't have it ready yet when I did my swap or I would have ordered that setup. The input shaft fit fine into the stock pilot bearing.

Image

Image
 
#4 ·
That is SICK! How much did that conversion run you by the time the dust settled?

How much abuse can those take? I know they are real good transmissions but really how good are they? I may want to do this in my Ram, I think SCT can turn off the transmission input/output.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 
#5 ·
AIR_RAM said:
That is SICK! How much did that conversion run you by the time the dust settled?

How much abuse can those take? I know they are real good transmissions but really how good are they? I may want to do this in my Ram, I think SCT can turn off the transmission input/output.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
Click to expand...
It's way, way better than the NV3500. Power, I dunno. Last time I dyno'd I was 470rwhp with 12psi. I'm now running 15 psi so probably 550 to the ground. You also gotta figure there are turbo Vipers running them with a lot more power.

Dug up my original invoice from three years ago, so I'm sure the prices are more:

169.00 Adapter plate
469.00 Hydraulic TO Bearing and master cylinder kit
244.00 Lakewood bellhousing
299.00 Pressure plate & clutch

From memory:
550.00 Aluminum flywheel
1700-ish Trans
25.00 flywheel bolts
150.00 driveshaft work
100.00 B&M shifter
 
#6 ·
Holy crap! I'm drooling all over the keyboard dreaming about driving that nasty combo. Nice work!
 
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#7 ·
Turbo47 said:
It's way, way better than the NV3500. Power, I dunno. Last time I dyno'd I was 470rwhp with 12psi. I'm now running 15 psi so probably 550 to the ground. You also gotta figure there are turbo Vipers running them with a lot more power.

Dug up my original invoice from three years ago, so I'm sure the prices are more:

169.00 Adapter plate
469.00 Hydraulic TO Bearing and master cylinder kit
244.00 Lakewood bellhousing
299.00 Pressure plate & clutch

From memory:
550.00 Aluminum flywheel
1700-ish Trans
25.00 flywheel bolts
150.00 driveshaft work
100.00 B&M shifter
Click to expand...
What have you done internally to your 4.7L to run those numbers... are you using stock Pistons/Rods/Crank? I can see the stock cast crank living there but the stock pistons would be living on the edge.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 
#8 ·
Yeah but didn't he bow his up after a while?...

While I agree with a perfect tune with no detonation most any piston would survive... but Forged pistons earn their keep when the tune degrades due unforeseen circumstances like running out of METH at WOT, bad plugs, bad fuel, overheating... the list could go on.

But that is good to know... how often did he run those boost levels? This just makes me feel that 20PSI is not only possible but likely should the tune be up to it.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 
#9 ·
AIR_RAM said:
What have you done internally to your 4.7L to run those numbers... are you using stock Pistons/Rods/Crank? I can see the stock cast crank living there but the stock pistons would be living on the edge.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
Click to expand...
Started off with an HO engine for the forged crank and heads.
Ross 8.1:1 pistons, Crower billet rods, Crane ground cams (see KRC turbo cams), CompCams valve springs, headwork done by KRC's porter, F&B 72mm TB, Turbonetics T-72 ball bearing turbo, Racegate, Spearco intercooler, AEM EMS.

Oh yeah, the 470 dyno number is uncorrected. A lot of people post up SAE corrected numbers. Maybe for NA that makes some sense, but not for boost.

Here's a dyno image from 10psi. Peak TQ number is actually a lot higher. Peak TQ is at 3900 rpm, but the dyno (intertia-type) wouldn't put enough load on the engine to get the turbo to spool then. On the street it spools around 3700 and all he11 breaks loose.
Image
 
#10 ·
Turbo47 said:
Started off with an HO engine for the forged crank and heads.
Ross 8.1:1 pistons, Crower billet rods, Crane ground cams (see KRC turbo cams), CompCams valve springs, headwork done by KRC's porter, F&B 72mm TB, Turbonetics T-72 ball bearing turbo, Racegate, Spearco intercooler, AEM EMS.

Oh yeah, the 470 dyno number is uncorrected. A lot of people post up SAE corrected numbers. Maybe for NA that makes some sense, but not for boost.

Here's a dyno image from 10psi. Peak TQ number is actually a lot higher. Peak TQ is at 3900 rpm, but the dyno (intertia-type) wouldn't put enough load on the engine to get the turbo to spool then. On the street it spools around 3700 and all he11 breaks loose.
Image
Click to expand...
What kind of tune where you running... I can only assume it was a B&G tune... ?

What do you think of our build up? I'm new to the boosted world but we plan to Keep things as cool as possible. Starting with a 9:1 initial CR using Ceramic coatings on the pistons/combustion chambers/Exhaust ports+valves and running an Air to Air Inter cooler into a internally mounted Air to Water inter cooler below the Whipple. We are also going to run the Vampire Direct Ignition - Individual Cylinder Knock Control System which is superior to any factory retard system and can retard the individual cylinders that are knocking more then 20 degrees keeping it right on the edge without causing damage.

Would like to make 550-600RWHP... I'm aiming high but I feel mechanically it can do it... but not sure what our limitations are on the tune.

Would like to pick your mind one day...

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 
#11 ·
AIR_RAM said:
What kind of tune where you running... I can only assume it was a B&G tune... ?

What do you think of our build up? I'm new to the boosted world but we plan to Keep things as cool as possible. Starting with a 9:1 initial CR using Ceramic coatings on the pistons/combustion chambers/Exhaust ports+valves and running an Air to Air Inter cooler into a internally mounted Air to Water inter cooler below the Whipple. We are also going to run the Vampire Direct Ignition - Individual Cylinder Knock Control System which is superior to any factory retard system and can retard the individual cylinders that are knocking more then 20 degrees keeping it right on the edge without causing damage.

Would like to make 550-600RWHP... I'm aiming high but I feel mechanically it can do it... but not sure what our limitations are on the tune.

Would like to pick your mind one day...

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
Click to expand...
Tune was done by me. I'm using an AEM Viper EMS standalone with SRT-4 coils and Ford Racing 39# Cobra injectors. At 15psi, I'm at 80% duty cycle. Gotta go bigger injectors if I want more power. I'd like to go 18psi and go for 600rwhp eventually. But the way it is now, I don't bring on 15psi of boost until around 90mph or it'll just blow the tires off.

BTW, fuel system is modded too. Aeromotive high-flow carb pump feeds a 1/2 gallon surge tank. That feeds an A1000 pump. All 10AN to a y-block, then 8AN to the rails, 6AN return to surge and main tanks. The rails are made from 5/8" Aermotive stock.

For CR. 8.1:1 is a non-issue. If I'd do it again I'd probably even go 7.5:1. There isn't really any off-boost lack of power. 9:1 is too high for a purpose-built engine for boost on pump gas, IMO.
 
#12 ·
You should post up if you ever take that beast to Firebird Raceway, I'd love to see you make some passes.
 
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#13 ·
Turbo47- Where the hell have you been! lol

Awesome awesome truck.
 
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#14 ·
viperkota said:
any particular reason that you use the srt4 coils?
what size rear tires and rear gears do you have?
would you happen to have more pics or a site that has all of you build info?
Click to expand...
I would like to know more also... I have been looking at the Ford 4.6L coils as they resemble our coils quite a bit... not sure how much more juice they would produce over our stock ones... but the 4.6l MSD coils look to be a direct fit... except the plug which should be easy to find.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 
#15 ·
viperkota said:
any particular reason that you use the srt4 coils?
what size rear tires and rear gears do you have?
would you happen to have more pics or a site that has all of you build info?
Click to expand...
SRT-4 Coils,A few reasons really. The AEM has 5 coil drivers, so for 8 cylinder applications, you have to use wasted spark so I couldn't use the OEM coil on plugs. AEM also already tested the SRT-4 coils and has the dwell numbers setup in a wizard. MSD makes a cheap and readily available pigtail for the SRT-4 coil. I also could have used Viper coils, but I figured the pigtails would be a PITA to track down.

Tires: 295/35/18 front, 335/30/18 in the back. Stock 3.92 gears. I have a set of 3.55's but have never felt the need to install them.

I don't really maintain a site but I'll post up a few pix later...
 
#16 ·
Turbo47 said:
SRT-4 Coils,A few reasons really. The AEM has 5 coil drivers, so for 8 cylinder applications, you have to use wasted spark so I couldn't use the OEM coil on plugs. AEM also already tested the SRT-4 coils and has the dwell numbers setup in a wizard. MSD makes a cheap and readily available pigtail for the SRT-4 coil. I also could have used Viper coils, but I figured the pigtails would be a PITA to track down.

Tires: 295/35/18 front, 335/30/18 in the back. Stock 3.92 gears. I have a set of 3.55's but have never felt the need to install them.

I don't really maintain a site but I'll post up a few pix later...
Click to expand...
IF Im able to use the SCT to turn off my Auto Trans how hard do you think it would be to add this transmission to my Ram... I would really like to do this but honestly I have never "CONVERTED" from an AUTO to a Manual. So Im really not sure how big of a job it would be.

Is the T56 self contained manual with no need for PCM intervention? Would I need some type of PCM for the T56?

I'm really looking into this big time.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 
#17 ·
viperkota said:
well since i am currently going thru this and i do have an auto.....if sct will turn all the auto stuff "off" then you have an edge there...the t56 has 3-4 things on it...speedo, reverse lock out, reverse lights and the skipshift....the only thing you need to hook up s the reverse lights and if needed the reverse lockout....there is NO pcm connection needed for the t56


now as for the project...its not a big project nor really complicated since most of the parts are easily accessible

you hardest part may just be putting in the clutch pedal....of course depending on how you go about it there are about 2 ways to do it.

with the power you are already putting down in the ram...and you learn how to do a stick (if you already dont know how) then your ram will be putting more power to the ground than the auto and you will have better times


but since you also have the separate pcm and tcm...i would have to see what all you would need to remove ....if you choose to....i personally chose to remove everything related to the auto tranny...because i am not going back to one
Click to expand...
IF It work without the transmission PCM then absolutely I would remove it ALL!

I'm excited but I don't want to get too excited. I'm afraid its all a dream at this point.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 
#18 · (Edited)
viperkota said:
you have any part numbers for the bellhousing, adapter plate, flywheel bolts and shifter?

also...is the shifter still in the rear most shifter location on the tranny? and do you have more pis of it all?


and more info on your turbo setup would be nice:mullet:
Click to expand...
Here's what I have for readily available part numbers from my Dark Horse Performance invoices.
Also edited to add, I don't think Dark Horse Performance is in business any more. So, if starting this project new, I'd either contact McLeod directly or order stuff from Summit if available there.

GM straight up muncie pattern for T56: MCL-8-200GM
Hyd TO bearing with -1 short piston and master cylinder kit GM T5 trans: MCL-13025-1
36" Braided line for hyd TO bearing 4AN: MCL-139100-36
Smallblock Mopar to GM steel bellhousing: LAK-77-325

130 tooth aluminum flywheel for 4.7/5.7 w/10.5 pattern: MCL-564108
2850# 10.95 diaphram pressure plate GM & Mopar: MCL-360709
11" dual surface disc 1 1/8" X 26 spline, reverse hub for Ford: MCL-260871R

Updated April 20, 2009.
For anyone doing this swap, get this clutch disc instead:
11" ceramic disc 1 1/8" X 26 split, reverse hub for Ford: MCL-260671R
The 260871R disc couldn't handle the power. It is rated for 500. The 260671R is rated for 625. My original disc gave out under 15psi of boost last fall. I finally got around to replacing it in the last couple of weeks. The original disk had dual surface, ceramic on the flywheel side, and organic on the pressure plate side. The organic side had worn to the point of almost being completely gone and the pressure plate was fubar too. The ceramic side was fine and so was the flywheel.



Other stuff I used:
ARP bolts, Ford Pinto 2000cc 10mm flywheel bolt kit: 151-2801 (qty 6, so you'll need two packages)
B&M Ripper Shifter for the Ford Mustang Cobra: B&M 45045 (I don't have my Summit invoice anymore but the shifter was the Ripper for the 03/04 Cobra Mustang)

Other notes: The aluminum flywheel is made by McLeod. It is the same flywheel that Mopar Performace Parts advertises for the new gen. 5.7 Hemi. McLeod makes it for MPP. They also make a steel one and that one probably wouldn't need the longer ARP bolts. The parts from DHP are either from McLeod (MCL) or Lakewood (LAK).

If you're thinking about doing the swap. I'd just call DHP and talk to Fred. He can source all the stuff for you in one simple order. Fred is the owner and he is friends with Red, the founder of McLeod. They are both great guys. I talked to Red at McLeod for a while on the phone about the flywheel (it was a new product at the time). They didn't have any in stock at the time and made one up for me with an order through DHP. Red also said they had a product that would modify the shifter location to the forward inspection on the T56. I ended up not doing that because the trans needs to come apart and placement ended up just fine anyway (see photo in previous post).
 
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