Shorten wheel base/cab swap for Dunes

Theres a lot to respond to here, so I'll try to answer and explain, one at a time….

HemiMoparGuy198 said:

Hey Guys,

I'm new here, researching information to build a nice dune runner. So I was looking for some advice to achieve my goal. Essentially, I want a Wrangler, but the cost they are going for within 400 miles, I can get a Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, Dakota, or Durango, and do A LOT of work to them and still come out less money.

Click to expand...

Wranglers, especially the 4dr models are very popular and the higher cost reflects this. I wouldn't drop the idea, because over the next few years, the price will come down and believe it or not, most never see the dirt. Just keep your eyes out for the ones that are riding on street tires.

Of the alternative vehicles that you mentioned, each has their pros and cons. The trick is to find which vehicle offers more pros than cons. Here is my break down as to which and why;

Cherokee and Grand Cherokee. I'll be referring to older models, none of what I say about them will apply to the new models (And if you could afford a new one, you could afford the Wrangler) Both have solid front axles, both offer a good 4.0L inline 6. The GC also offered a V8. The GC has a little more interior room. Parts for them are abundant and aftermarket support is great. The solid front axles are good and provide excellent articulation, but they aren't super strong.

Dakota and (1st gen) Durango. If I were to go with one of these, I'd get one with the V8, preferably the 318 or 360. (Or if you go with a 2nd gen Durango, with the 5.7 Hemi V8). The great thing is prices for these are even less than the Chero and GC. But they have several disadvantages compared to the Chero and GC. First they have a weaker IFS front suspension and will require lot of custom work to correct their shortcomings. Second is they are heavier than the Chero and GC. (V8s will help offset the weight disadvantage) Third, theres plenty of aftermarket support for the 318 and 360, but hardly any for the 4.7 and nothing for the rest of the truck.

So where I am going with this, here, is I am considering a Dakota regular cab frame and put a quad cab without the bed on it, so I have a shorter wheelbase like a Wrangler, but still have the seating for the family; no bed because I don't think I feel like fabricating it to fit, and to shave some weight so she'll run through the sand better.

Click to expand...

Cab swaps are possible. I did it myself, replacing a rusted out 99 extended cab for a quad cab. Heres what to expect. You'll have to cut, move and re-weld the rear-most body supports thats on the frame, and build two for the center mounts (quad cabs have 6 body mounts) The front mounts are fine. You'll probably have to alter, or replace the gas tank to fit the new configuration.
Part of the effort will be dealing with the wiring harnesses. If you want a simple plug and play cab swap, you'll need to use a quad cab, cab thats the same year as the regular cab you intend to replace. If you can't match up the year, then you'll need to swap much of the interior including the harnesses. The biggest issue maybe to find a quad cab in the first place. It took me about two years to find a solid rust free quad cab to use.
I would suggest some kind of bed. Although, the truck will be lighter without it, it's the weight on the rear tires you'll need. For me, I built a classic Power Wagon style utiline bed (Step side bed in Dodge speak) However, the shorter regular cab frame probably won't have room for just a fender and I would suspect that the rear tires will be just inches from the rear of the cab, so i would do just a simple flat bed which will also provide a space to carry stuff you'll want and need.

I've also thought about a Durango or Grand Cherokee and chop the back off to have an open feel and shave weight. The only issue I have with that is keeping it weather proof when not riding in the dunes.

Click to expand...

Making such a set up weather proof isn't a big deal. You can have someone sew up a nice canvas top with snaps, and rivet the other part of the snaps to the body of the truck, at the new opening. The bigger issue is you just can't cut off the back part of the roof on the Grand Chero without weakening the entire structure. The GC has a unitized chassis and the roof is an integral part of that structure. Cutting off the rear will weaken the chassis. Unless you plan to use subframe connectors and weld in a roll cage. Don't cut off the roof (in whole or in part)….. This doesn't apply to the Durango. That truck is built on a full frame and the body is a separate structure.

If you want something that is relatively turn key, I'd probably choose the Chero or GC as these are well suited to what you want and require the least amount of time and money to set up. I would consider a Dak or Dur if I wanted something I can build, like for example, adding one ton solid axles, or dropping a healthy V8 into.

Ed

So for now, I am stuck between the Dur and GC. I like the full frame idea under the Durango. IFF I do chop away at anything, I planned on a roll bar for safety of family. But I like the idea of solid axle of the GC. I also like the idea of the 360 over 318, which says Durango. I plan to keep everything mostly stock as far as performance, at least at this point. I would LOVE to build my rig, but time, space, and lack of even a garage to have a decent enough shop set up inhibits me a bit. I do like the look of the Durango a bit better, LOVE the idea of the Hemi, but I like the looks of first gen A LOT more. Plus we are on our 3rd GC for a driver (had 99, then 02, now wife drives 05 Limited) I've always wanted a first Gen Durango, but it was a lower payment to buy my 06 Ram new, than buying a used one or Durango cuz of 0% interest at the time. Almost sounds like I am set on a Durango. and if it had a solid axle, it's be a no brainer...I guess I could always throw some on or go 1-ton axles like mentioned, but again, lack of an adequate shop setup in this rental house is depressing whenever I have to work on something. Though, I don't really need my dream rig in my first go-round either. I guess if I went Durango, I could build it up a little over time, learn good HP/torque ratios for my intended use, gearing, etc, then implement those ideas into my short WB frame with a QC cab. UGH, decisions decisions!!!

I wouldn't pass up a 318, they are great engines. Theres no doubt that the 360 is more desirable, but the 318 is basically the same engine. They both share the same block and can be built the same, but 318s are easier to find and cheaper to buy. Finding a 360 in a GC will be tough. Jeep only offered them for one year, 1998. The rest either had the 4.0 liter or 318. Theres more chance to find a Durango with a 360, but you can also find them with 318s, but neither will give you a solid front axle. I'd still say if you want something ready to roll as is, it would be a GC.

The second gen Durango is ugly. Theres no doubting that! I don't know what the corporate head honchos were thinking because if you seen the original concept vehicle that the 2nd gen Durango was based off of, you'd fall in love with it. FYI, the concept vehicle was known as the Dodge Powerbox if you wanted to look it up. The only reason I'd consider the 2nd gen Durango would be for the Hemi and for that, I'd either live with the looks, or somehow change it. (Dump the ugly grille, and front bumper, then weld in some new tube bumpers, black out the front end, etc) And no one has really done one up. You could run a Durango on the original IFS and have decent results (Don't go with tires biggest hen 33"s) until you can work out how you can do a solid axle swap later.

Of course I like building trucks too. With some work you can drop a 5.7 Hemi into a 1st Gen Durango. And solid axle swaps are always possible. But it won't be cheap. I would show you my Dakota and everything that was done, but unfortunately I was using Photobucket and they just decided to charge to host. So I dropped them. Anyway, when I found major cancer in my Dakota, I seriously thought about junking it and buying a GC (Same reasons, room for 4, V8, solid axles) But I hated the idea of junking a perfectly good running truck. The nice thing about full frame trucks is cabs are replaceable. I hunted down a rust-free quad cab, bought it and replaced it. I then built a bed for it out of 2x2 tubing and aluminum diamond plate. I drove the truck like this for over a year before I got another itch. That was the axle swap and engine swap. There wasn't anything wrong with the 318 I had, but I always loved the idea of stuffing a Cummins under the hood (and I already had the engine). And with the Cummins, I needed to swap axles. Now I also didn't really have the space. No garage, and we were planning on moving (Which we did) It cost me a heck of a lot more, but I subbed out the work. Partly because I don't weld and I didn't have the time, because I was always at work. So instead, I worked extra hours and paid for someone to build the truck to my specs. Did I say it wasn't cheap? Well I put in thousands, but I got exactly what I wanted.

Ed