[Mad-Max]

just brainstorming now...

so the starter engages the flywheel properly and it's getting stuck/not releasing? Maybe the starter teeth are 'wedging' the drive teeth into the flywheel teeth and making it too-tight to turn? Assuming the battery is fully charged maybe it's just a bad starter? Could just try another identical starter, and if that doesn't work maybe a different version?

Is there a secondary power circuit that power the starter? IOW maybe there's enough amps to engage the drive gear but not enough to turn the engine?

Is there a difference between the pitch of the flywheel teeth and the starter teeth, jamming the gear mesh?

 

[sasdakota]

So I went down and looked at the Hemi truck starter and they are different. They have threaded inserts which wont work with the starter hook up. While it was at the auto parts store, I just had them test the starter to see how it was and while it did pass........ It was spinning super slow and seemed very very weak. I had him grab a new starter off the shelf and test it and it was insane the difference the new one made. I bet you it spun 2-3 times as fast and hard. Going to just pick it up on Saturday and give it a try. He said if it doesn't change anything, that I could bring it back, so why not.

 

[Dakota J]

Hopefully that will solve the problem. I’m sure you’re itching to drive it. Good luck.

 

[sasdakota]

Hopefully that will solve the problem. I’m sure you’re itching to drive it. Good luck.

yes and no..... I work a ton of hours and it makes it hard to stay motivated. I now have no interior in it because I already sold my rt seats months ago thinking I would have got the new ones done. I have full srt8 interior out of a 14 grand Cherokee and I already cut the brackets up and got ready to swap those in. So once it is running...... I have to do the interior next. Once it is all done, it will be really sweet with the interior but its going to take some time hahaha.

 

[Mad-Max]

...for sure...that truck is gonna be all kinds of 'really sweet' nethumb:

 

[sasdakota]

Sill no luck. starter seems to still be doing the same thing. I dont know guys.............

 

[Mad-Max]

alright so let's recap - when you key the switch to [start] the starter gear extends out and the splines completely engage with the flywheel, but you need to use a screwdriver to retract it, correct? So either there is a mechanical 'interference' problem preventing either gear to rotate, or there is an electrical problem preventing it. Having tried different starters it sounds like it is less likely to be mechanical, and if so either there isn't enough juice to spin the engine...or there is some electrical gremlin preventing the gear from spinning and/or retracting back into the starter - like the juice was disabled right after the gear extended out...kinda like the starter is in 'limp mode' for some reason. I'm wondering if there are more than one electric circuit in the starter wiring system that is necessary for a 4.7 to work...and one of those circuits is disabled for some reason related to the swap - a mismatch of wiring harnesses per se - like it's getting 5.7 volts instead of the full 14.3......like an old school 'ignition 1' vs 'ignition 2' issue where ign 1 would rotate the starter but wouldn't fire the coil because ign 2 wasn't energized (anyone ever have that old Mopar problem? - it was SO fun).....?

Have you tested the starter unbolted from the bellhousing? Just hanging loose but wired up - key it to see what it does? If it starts and rotates then there's either not enough juice to (also) rotate the engine...or it's back to mechanical.

...just thinking outside the box...

 

[sasdakota]

alright so let's recap - when you key the switch to [start] the starter gear extends out and the splines completely engage with the flywheel, but you need to use a screwdriver to retract it, correct? So either there is a mechanical 'interference' problem preventing either gear to rotate, or there is an electrical problem preventing it. Having tried different starters it sounds like it is less likely to be mechanical, and if so either there isn't enough juice to spin the engine...or there is some electrical gremlin preventing the gear from spinning and/or retracting back into the starter - like the juice was disabled right after the gear extended out...kinda like the starter is in 'limp mode' for some reason. I'm wondering if there are more than one electric circuit in the starter wiring system that is necessary for a 4.7 to work...and one of those circuits is disabled for some reason related to the swap - a mismatch of wiring harnesses per se - like it's getting 5.7 volts instead of the full 14.3......like an old school 'ignition 1' vs 'ignition 2' issue where ign 1 would rotate the starter but wouldn't fire the coil because ign 2 wasn't energized (anyone ever have that old Mopar problem? - it was SO fun).....?

Have you tested the starter unbolted from the bellhousing? Just hanging loose but wired up - key it to see what it does? If it starts and rotates then there's either not enough juice to (also) rotate the engine...or it's back to mechanical.

...just thinking outside the box...

Yes, I have pulled it out and tested it and it does spin. It is almost like it doesn't have enough power. I will take a video of it tonight so people can see what its doing. I wonder if it is something in the wiring.

 

[RXT]

Ok, from my casual observation of this, it sounds like you either have (or had) the wrong starter or a dead starter. If you suspect a bad wire, (assuming the main lead) you can try and hook the starter to the wire, but don't bolt it into the tranny, ground the housing and turn it over. The starter will either spin fast and strong (nothing wrong with the main lead) or turn slow and weak (indicating a bad lead wire)

Another thing I'm thinking about is your transmission. An NV3500 is not a huge transmission. It's really rated to handle small V8s or large V6s, It isn't really intended to handle the bigger V8s like the 5.7 Hemi, so I'm kinda wondering if theres some physical interference thats keeping the starter from turning it, like a flywheel dragging or a clutch hanging up. If it were me, I'd try turning the engine by hand with the clutch in and then out (tires off the ground) and see if it will turn.

Ed

 

[sasdakota]

Ok, from my casual observation of this, it sounds like you either have (or had) the wrong starter or a dead starter. If you suspect a bad wire, (assuming the main lead) you can try and hook the starter to the wire, but don't bolt it into the tranny, ground the housing and turn it over. The starter will either spin fast and strong (nothing wrong with the main lead) or turn slow and weak (indicating a bad lead wire)

Another thing I'm thinking about is your transmission. An NV3500 is not a huge transmission. It's really rated to handle small V8s or large V6s, It isn't really intended to handle the bigger V8s like the 5.7 Hemi, so I'm kinda wondering if theres some physical interference thats keeping the starter from turning it, like a flywheel dragging or a clutch hanging up. If it were me, I'd try turning the engine by hand with the clutch in and then out (tires off the ground) and see if it will turn.

Ed

Well I did test the old starter out of the truck sitting on the leaf spring and it seemed to spin just fine. Its just doing something weird when in it. The trans has always been in the truck. So the starter worked great with the 4.7. I cranked over the motor with a wrench on front and it seemed like it was spinning just fine. Its weird. I will have to send a video of it tonight to really explain what is going on with it. Its just super weird. Its really the only thing that has been hanging me up with making any more progress.

 

[sasdakota]

I wonder if it is a ground strap issue. Idk If i have the ground straps in the right spot. I will have to double check that. Read where that the Hemi is very picky on ground straps.

 

[RXT]

Well I did test the old starter out of the truck sitting on the leaf spring and it seemed to spin just fine. Its just doing something weird when in it.

My thinking is something is dragging or not turning as it should, if thats the case, then the starter is having a hard time and could burn up

The trans has always been in the truck. So the starter worked great with the 4.7. I cranked over the motor with a wrench on front and it seemed like it was spinning just fine. Its weird.

Right, but did you try to turn it by hand with the engine and transmission together??? If something is dragging or not turning, it's possible it has something to do with the engine and trans being together i.e., a flywheel thats binding or dragging against something, or a clutch thats hanging up. I'd pull the plugs out of the engine so that you don't have to turn the engine against it's compression, then try to turn it by hand with the clutch in and out to see if everything from the engine to the rear end is turning.

As for a ground strap, I believe that most starters are grounded to the trans housing. Usually theres a ground strap between the frame and engine and/or engine to body. Having too many ground straps isn't a bad thing, and you could try a direct strap from the starter body to the battery, but I'm wondering if you've got something hanging up between the engine and trans (like the clutch or flywheel)

Ed

 

[sasdakota]

here is what it is doing. Looks like the new starter isn't getting hung up in there now. The flywheel turns just a little then comes back.

 

[RXT]

Sounds weak or maybe dead battery. Usual checks are battery, cables and starter. Don't assume anything when you check. Sometimes what seems to be a good battery can actually be bad, same goes to starters and cables. Try another battery and you could even try using two batteries in series or a jump. You could bypass a cable with jumpers. Clamp one side to the positive battery post and the other side of the jumper, touch the starter lug to see if you got more spin. Did you buy a brand new starter? Or rebuilt? Was it made in China?

Ed

 

[Vladek]

Sounds weak or maybe dead battery. Usual checks are battery, cables and starter. Don't assume anything when you check. Sometimes what seems to be a good battery can actually be bad, same goes to starters and cables. Try another battery and you could even try using two batteries in series or a jump. You could bypass a cable with jumpers. Clamp one side to the positive battery post and the other side of the jumper, touch the starter lug to see if you got more spin. Did you buy a brand new starter? Or rebuilt? Was it made in China?

Ed

I agree with RXT. Something else also. Grab the battery from one of you other vehicles to see if that makes a difference. The old one might be loosing cold crank amps. Plus that is an easy and cheap test.

 

[sasdakota]

Thats the thing tho....... I pulled the battery out of a driving car and even through it on the charger for the night. As far as the starter goes, I had them test the old one as well as test the brand new one for me. The new one spun way harder and faster. I guess I will try another battery and maybe trace the wiring down a bit more and make sure all my grounds are good. May even hook up a ground straight to the starter.

also just want to say thank you guys for all the replies! Makes it hard when virtually no one does a manual Hemi swap let alone a hemi swap in a dakota! haha

 

[RXT]

Sometimes the simple things are the most often overlooked……If the battery and starter test out to be good, the cable is most likely at fault.

Even a cable that looks good might not be. If it's too small or too long the resistance in the cable can prevent all the power from reaching the starter. On my Cummins swap, I wanted to put the battery in the bed to help offset some of the weight up front. The length of the line was enough to make the starter turn slow enough that it wasn't enough to turn the engine over. I added a second battery with the same results. Eventually I put a battery back under the hood with the appropriate length wire, and it cranked up easily each time. Make sure the cable is as short as possible and as big as possible. Make sure your ground strap is also as short and as large as possible, and as direct as possible back to the battery.

One other test…. Turn the headlights on then crank the starter over. If the headlights dim or turn off while the starter engages, it indicates a weak battery. Most batteries hold more than enough power to light the headlights and crank the starter at the same time without dimming the headlights

Ed

 

[sasdakota]

Sometimes the simple things are the most often overlooked……If the battery and starter test out to be good, the cable is most likely at fault.

Even a cable that looks good might not be. If it's too small or too long the resistance in the cable can prevent all the power from reaching the starter. On my Cummins swap, I wanted to put the battery in the bed to help offset some of the weight up front. The length of the line was enough to make the starter turn slow enough that it wasn't enough to turn the engine over. I added a second battery with the same results. Eventually I put a battery back under the hood with the appropriate length wire, and it cranked up easily each time. Make sure the cable is as short as possible and as big as possible. Make sure your ground strap is also as short and as large as possible, and as direct as possible back to the battery.

One other test…. Turn the headlights on then crank the starter over. If the headlights dim or turn off while the starter engages, it indicates a weak battery. Most batteries hold more than enough power to light the headlights and crank the starter at the same time without dimming the headlights

Ed

The battery is actually in the bed. I had to do this for the supercharger for it relocates it into the bed. I may try and put it in the hood again and see what that does.

 

[Vladek]

I figuring that the video was with the old 4.7 starter. Can't remember if you got a new yet. Just my experence, but I have a hard time trusting the tests for batteries, alternators, and starters when the are out of the vehicle. They may work and have good meter readings, but that is without a load on them. If you have a buddy, You have them use a multi meter on the battery to what the volts drop to. While trying to start the truck. Then test the starter to how much voltage it is really pulling (it you can get to it without issues}.

I understand the the fustration with the lack of info for this kind of swap. I'm doing a 2010 5.7 Hemi (from a Ram 1500), to a 2005 Dakota. With Getrag 238, 4x4. I'm hoping to be finished with wiring this weekend.

 

[sasdakota]