Dakota Durango Forum banner
1 - 20 of 508 Posts

·
408,R3,Indy Heads,Twin66s
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, I just started making the big dollar purchases for the new engine build. I’m planning to do a turbo setup, eventually. I met with my engine builder and I just ordered my new R3 block (P5153452) from the local dealership last Friday. I also ordered a new set of Edelbrock heads last Friday as well.

Once the block comes in I will deliver it to the builder and we will start ordering the rotating assembly. I called DirectConnection to verify the part number on the block. They said that it is the correct part number, but the last production run had been changed to 318/340 mains. If this is true, it will actually be a good thing since it will have less contact area. This block is also supposed to come with a 4.000” finished honed bore so with a 4” crank I will be at 402CID. Looking at the Eagle forged crank and H-Beam rods. Will probably go with Diamond Racing Blower pistons and Hell Fire rings, but not sure yet.

I called Comp for a cam recommendation and they came up with 236/236 @ 0.050 and .579/.571 lift on a 115 LSA with 2deg advance built in.

More info to come, but I would appreciate input on some things as the build goes and I actually have a few questions now.

1. Rocker arm recommendations – I’m thinking Harland Sharp 1.6 heavy duty or standard, depending on spring requirements.
2. Lifter recommendations – Is a new set of OEM ones OK?
3. If I put this engine in before I turbo it, thoughts on how the power will be with the cam listed above? – I know the overlap is low, but it should still be more fun to drive than the 318 that is in it now and may help get everything broken in before the turbo goes on, which the budget won’t handle until next year at best.
4. Should I put in a main stud girdle? – My builder thinks it would be overkill with the R3 block and 4 bolt mains. Plus it may take more work to get it fitted with the R3 block according to Hughes.

Thanks in advance for the input and advice.
 

·
6.9 6 speed
Joined
·
4,711 Posts
I dont feel like looking up the part number.... Is this a 59* tall deck block? If so are you telling me they no longer make them in 360 mains?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,469 Posts
P5153452

• Ductile iron main caps (4-bolt on the center 3 caps)
• Dual motor mounts w/ “LA” and Magnum mounts (must use
late 1970s 318 mount for left side when using 340/360 “LA”
Wedge motor mounts)
• Heavy-Duty casting w/thicker deck and bore walls
• Works with all stock Magnum engine components
• Allows use of Magnum “stock style” hydraulic roller
camshafts
• Not recommended for use with aftermarket tie bar style
mechanical tappets
• High-nickel block casting
• Siamese Bore – allows up to 4.220" bore size
Rough bore size –3.94" on 5.9L block

-Moparsupercenter

Magnum and "LA" Blocks are designed for general high performance use and entry level racing. Ready for assembly without the need for any additional machining. Bored and honed to standard bore size. Camshaft Bearings and freeze plugs installed in block. Hardware kit included. Ductile Iron Main Caps with ARP bolts (four-bolt on the center three caps). Dual motor mounts with "LA" and Magnum mounts (must use late 1970s 318 mount for left side). Heavy duty casting with thicker deck and bore walls. Works with all stock-style engine components. P5153452 & P5153579 work with Magnum stock-style Hydraulic Roller Camshafts (required tappet retainer kit P5155275). Not recommended for use with aftermarket tie bar style mechanical roller tappets. Siamese Bore (all except P5007552AB) allows up to 4.220" bore size. Standard deck height - 9.600". Setup for wet sump oiling system with oil drain holes in the valley. Magnum blocks can also be used for "LA" applications with dual oiling system provisions (LA oil passages to heads or Magnum oiling through pushrods, and flat tappet or hydraulic roller cams). MPI provisions for Magnum crank trigger. 59� Tappet Bore works with all stock-style cylinder heads and camshafts. P5153579 requires use of 318/340 "LA" oil pan (stock 5.2L Magnum oil pan will not fit).

-Jimsautoparts

http://www.jimsautoparts.com/mopar_performance_blocks.htm
 

·
6.9 6 speed
Joined
·
4,711 Posts
That doesnt say anything about the mains.

As for the girdle. Unless you're making over 1k hp you dont need to do anything. After that you need billet caps not a girdle. I would go with rhodes lifters, they give more vac and low end power but they are loud. Why not go with a larger bore and crank? Callies sells a 4.25 stroke crank for the 318
 

·
408,R3,Indy Heads,Twin66s
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The part number lists the mains as 360 sized, but the guy at DirectConnection said the last production run was in the 318/340 size. He said that it's the same as (P5153579) but with a 4.000" bore. If you are looking to get anything questionable from Mopar Performance call 1-888-528-4364. I talked to a guy named Rick.

As for larger crank, I'm thinking from a cost standpoint and overall engine stress the 4" gives a good balance. I may price others though and go with a bigger one, but the rods and pistons may start to get cost prohibitive. From a bore standpoint I could go a lot bigger, but I plan on keeping this block for a long time and staying smaller, it gives me more room to rebuild down the road. I think I can get there with a little more boost. I have read that I could build a 500” small block with this block.

I am shooting for eventually ~1000HP, but I plan on taking baby steps to get there. I am also planning on running this with a Mass Flow EFI setup
 

·
408,R3,Indy Heads,Twin66s
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
P5153452

• Ductile iron main caps (4-bolt on the center 3 caps)
• Dual motor mounts w/ “LA” and Magnum mounts (must use
late 1970s 318 mount for left side when using 340/360 “LA”
Wedge motor mounts)
• Heavy-Duty casting w/thicker deck and bore walls
• Works with all stock Magnum engine components
• Allows use of Magnum “stock style” hydraulic roller
camshafts
• Not recommended for use with aftermarket tie bar style
mechanical tappets
• High-nickel block casting
• Siamese Bore – allows up to 4.220" bore size
Rough bore size –3.94" on 5.9L block

-Moparsupercenter

Magnum and "LA" Blocks are designed for general high performance use and entry level racing. Ready for assembly without the need for any additional machining. Bored and honed to standard bore size. Camshaft Bearings and freeze plugs installed in block. Hardware kit included. Ductile Iron Main Caps with ARP bolts (four-bolt on the center three caps). Dual motor mounts with "LA" and Magnum mounts (must use late 1970s 318 mount for left side). Heavy duty casting with thicker deck and bore walls. Works with all stock-style engine components. P5153452 & P5153579 work with Magnum stock-style Hydraulic Roller Camshafts (required tappet retainer kit P5155275). Not recommended for use with aftermarket tie bar style mechanical roller tappets. Siamese Bore (all except P5007552AB) allows up to 4.220" bore size. Standard deck height - 9.600". Setup for wet sump oiling system with oil drain holes in the valley. Magnum blocks can also be used for "LA" applications with dual oiling system provisions (LA oil passages to heads or Magnum oiling through pushrods, and flat tappet or hydraulic roller cams). MPI provisions for Magnum crank trigger. 59� Tappet Bore works with all stock-style cylinder heads and camshafts. P5153579 requires use of 318/340 "LA" oil pan (stock 5.2L Magnum oil pan will not fit).

-Jimsautoparts

http://www.jimsautoparts.com/mopar_performance_blocks.htm
I also just noticed, I will have to come up with a custom oil pan based on the last sentance. Just f'ing great. Probably also means that I won't be able to use the one piece rubber gasket the magnums use on the oil pans.
 

·
6.9 6 speed
Joined
·
4,711 Posts
The part number lists the mains as 360 sized, but the guy at DirectConnection said the last production run was in the 318/340 size. He said that it's the same as (P5153579) but with a 4.000" bore. If you are looking to get anything questionable from Mopar Performance call 1-888-528-4364. I talked to a guy named Rick.

As for larger crank, I'm thinking from a cost standpoint and overall engine stress the 4" gives a good balance. I may price others though and go with a bigger one, but the rods and pistons may start to get cost prohibitive. From a bore standpoint I could go a lot bigger, but I plan on keeping this block for a long time and staying smaller, it gives me more room to rebuild down the road. I think I can get there with a little more boost. I have read that I could build a 500” small block with this block.

I am shooting for eventually ~1000HP, but I plan on taking baby steps to get there. I am also planning on running this with a Mass Flow EFI setup
LOL your going with a R3 block so I didnt think cost would be THAT much of an issue. .220 is PLENTY of room to grow and I have heard you can go as far as .225. If it was me I would knock out the major expenses and work the first time. What im saying is I would go big the first time I build it so that I dont have to tear it apart and do it again. A set of indy 360 h1-1k would be sweet.
 

·
408,R3,Indy Heads,Twin66s
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
LOL your going with a R3 block so I didnt think cost would be THAT much of an issue. .220 is PLENTY of room to grow and I have heard you can go as far as .225. If it was me I would knock out the major expenses and work the first time. What im saying is I would go big the first time I build it so that I dont have to tear it apart and do it again. A set of indy 360 h1-1k would be sweet.
Unfortunatly it is. Would my stock accessories bolt to those heads? I don't want to have to rework the accessory drives as well.
 

·
the blue blur...
Joined
·
1,863 Posts
1. those or comp cams has their line of rockers, i would have tried comp cams ones just to be different and see how they did but they werent available until after i already bought my HS's. i've heard good things about the crower's too.

2. like mentioned, look into rhoads lifters. i went with them for my 408. they are supposed to let you run better at idle and make low end torque by bleeding out at low rpms so your valve timing isnt as extreme and losing vacuum. then when you get on it, they pump up to full operation and restore your valve timing. it works somehow like that, their website explains it better.

3. idk. i'm not experienced enough yet, lol.

4. r3's are strong ass blocks.....unless you were going for 1500hp, i dont think i'd run one with 4bolt mains. again, like mentioned, billet caps are the way to with the r3. you might also wanna get on one of the mopar forums (the guys with the badass drag dusters, challengers, etc....cant remember the name of the forum) as i've seen alot of them running r3's and they could give you a ton of info.

sounds like it will be badass, especially in a '93. also, as far as heads go, with an r3 block, you have way better options out there than the eddy's. just throwing it out there. if i had the coin, i'd love to build a 472 stroker r3. good luck with it.
 

·
Turbo Dakota Junkie
Joined
·
1,244 Posts
Unfortunatly it is. Would my stock accessories bolt to those heads? I don't want to have to rework the accessory drives as well.
Ryan at Shady Dell can add the accessory bosses to any set of heads. I would look beyond the Eddies if I had the money for a bad-ass R3 build.

But then again.... I'm like most everybody else. I'm really good at spending other people's money for them.
 

·
6.9 6 speed
Joined
·
4,711 Posts
Unfortunatly it is. Would my stock accessories bolt to those heads? I don't want to have to rework the accessory drives as well.
yes the indy's use stock accessories. They sell everything including intake manifold and a pretty good price. They also offere cnc porting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Don't wimp out on a Nice Build, do it right the 1st Time

Don't wimp out on a 402ci when you can get a 440ci Rotating assembly for about the same cost (around $2100), it is 4.0" stroke with a 4.185 bore, then a good set of heads and Wala, 600chp ponies on pump gas if you know what you are building. I'm moving my 426ci out to a 440ci some times this summer, I have the rotating assembly already, just need to bore and hone my block. Same block as what you have ordered but with 360ci mains. It has the Hughes 426ci Rotating assembly now, but the 4.180" stroke with these tiny azz rods scares me. That is why I got the 440ci, has standard 'H' Beam rods on a Short Stroke, 4.00", should make about 724 bhp and 690 ftlbs of torque with 12.5 to 1 compression and Indy Rectangle Port Heads.
 

·
6.9 6 speed
Joined
·
4,711 Posts
Don't wimp out on a 402ci when you can get a 440ci Rotating assembly for about the same cost (around $2100), it is 4.0" stroke with a 4.185 bore, then a good set of heads and Wala, 600chp ponies on pump gas if you know what you are building. I'm moving my 426ci out to a 440ci some times this summer, I have the rotating assembly already, just need to bore and hone my block. Same block as what you have ordered but with 360ci mains. It has the Hughes 426ci Rotating assembly now, but the 4.180" stroke with these tiny azz rods scares me. That is why I got the 440ci, has standard 'H' Beam rods on a Short Stroke, 4.00", should make about 724 bhp and 690 ftlbs of torque with 12.5 to 1 compression and Indy Rectangle Port Heads.
hes been on past time, listen to him lol
 

·
R/Tless...for now
Joined
·
2,640 Posts
You could also go the other way for a 440, 4.060" bore with a 4.25" stroke. Plenty of meat left in the block, and ring selection is still good at that size (I'm running hellfires in that size).

Definitely don't need a girdle with an R3, as mentioned the stock iron caps are good to around 900-1000hp, past that you'd want billet caps.

The stock accessories are supposed to work with the Indy heads, but I believe you'll need to get custom headers built, or at least have an Indy flange welded onto as set of Dakota headers. Indy heads would make it easier to get to 1000hp, but you could still do it with Eddys, just need more boost.
 

·
408,R3,Indy Heads,Twin66s
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Don't wimp out on a 402ci when you can get a 440ci Rotating assembly for about the same cost (around $2100), it is 4.0" stroke with a 4.185 bore, then a good set of heads and Wala, 600chp ponies on pump gas if you know what you are building. I'm moving my 426ci out to a 440ci some times this summer, I have the rotating assembly already, just need to bore and hone my block. Same block as what you have ordered but with 360ci mains. It has the Hughes 426ci Rotating assembly now, but the 4.180" stroke with these tiny azz rods scares me. That is why I got the 440ci, has standard 'H' Beam rods on a Short Stroke, 4.00", should make about 724 bhp and 690 ftlbs of torque with 12.5 to 1 compression and Indy Rectangle Port Heads.
I'll have to check into that. Where is this rotating assembly that you are speaking of? Also I need to keep the compression at 9:1 or lower.
 

·
408,R3,Indy Heads,Twin66s
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Why the mass air flow EFI?

Keep it speed density, and go with a Wilson's manifold 90 elbow and a Wilson's big bore TB. Run a FAST XFI or BS3 engine management.
Cost and tuneability, but I am not dead set on this since I haven't bought anything yet. This system is supposed to be easily tunable and almost any Dyno shop can tune them since it's basically a Mustang system.
 

·
6.9 6 speed
Joined
·
4,711 Posts
I didn't think they even made R3 blocks in production anymore?
they have been back in production for a while now. I was trying to snag 360 main one but I still havent got my tax returns and now apparently their only 318/340 mains. :rant:
 

·
408,R3,Indy Heads,Twin66s
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I called Indy today. The guy I talked to was pretty short with me. It was hard to get specific's around flow numbers. Prices were a bit cyrptic as well. If I understood correctly they flow ~250 to 300 cfm. The stuff I would need would be $3535 for the kit (heads, gaskets, intake, rockers, pushrods), $405 to convert to Magnum oiling, $1000 for CNC porting. So ~$5000 for upper end. I don't know if it's worth it. I just want to run 10's on boost. I guess by the time you buy all of the stuff seperatly it's not that much more if you need absolute top flow. If I go this route the build will probably not get finished until this time next year at best.
 
1 - 20 of 508 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top