[andyvh1959]

My Dak now has 180,000+ miles on it. I suspect front brake drag, more than normal, because the front brake caliper mounts, where the caliper "slides" on the mounts are notched from wear and road salt. Anyone else suspect this or replaced the caliper mounts because of the notching?

I notice the PS wheel gets more brake dust over time than the DS wheel and I suspect the caliper mount notch is causing some brake drag.

 

[andyvh1959]

Surprised I never got any response to this posting. I just swapped the summer tires for the winter tires on my 01 Dak, and it was easy to determine which wheels were on the front because of the black dirt on the front wheels, especially the one from the PS front. I still suspect the notch worn into the caliper carrier brackets does not let the caliper fully retract. I have had the calipers off again last winter to replace the PS wheel bearing and I still feel the worn caliper carrier is the cause of the brake drag. My Dak is a 2wd manual tranny with stock size tires and a 3.92 rear axle. I notice a lot of Daks and Durangos locally with really nasty black front rims from the brake dust and I suspect some of that is due to the caliper carriers. I do make sure the caliper pins are clean and lubed, so that is not the cause of any brake drag.

Also, i do a lot of highway driving on mostly level highways. So my Dak runs at a steady highway engine speed with little throttle action. Yet, at best I get about 18 to maybe 19 mpg. I chuckle when I see other claim they get 22 to 24 mpg in their Dak. If I go with the mileage indicated on the overhead console then yes it says I am averaging 22 mpg. But NO way is that real as i checked mileage through many tanks of gas and at best I got 19mpg a few times.

So I plan to replace the caliper carrier brackets to see what if any difference I get in mileage and cleaner wheels.

 

[Dodgeballs]

Why don't you just change the slide pins? You can spin the wheels by hand to see if they're dragging.

If you're getting lots of brake dust, it's probably more to do with the pads you're using. Suggest you switch to ceramic pads.

 

[andyvh1959]

Because its not just the slide pins that cause the pads to hang up. I cleaned/buffed/lubed the pins, cleaned/lubed the pin bores on the calipers, cleaned the caliper bracket rails and greased them. But the rails are notched and the pad fingers hang up in the notches and don't fully retract. The caliper mount brackets aren't available as replacement parts from Dorman or Cardone. So even going to Dodge OEm it looks like they are not available either. Probably have to order a complete rebuilt caliper kit to get the refurbished caliper mount brackets with the calipers. The attached jpeg is right from Chrysler OEM online parts and it does nto show the caliper mount brackets as separate items.

Ceramic pads may reduce the brake dust issue, but again the pads themselves are not the issue, its the notched/worn caliper pad slide rails on the brackets. My Dak has 193,000 miles on it, mostly highway, and the caliper bracket pad slide rails are definitely notched from wear. i may just wait till spring, take the caliper brackets off and have the notches welded in and them grind them down smooth again.

 

[Dodgeballs]

Are you talking about these? (These are for 2003 and may not fit but just want to know if we are on the same page).

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/s...0&Ntt=2003+Dodge+Dakota+Brake+Caliper+Bracket

Edit: From what I'm seeing, you don't even have a bracket. You should probably visit a salvage yard or ebay. Also, maybe you can upgrade to newer brake setup if possible.

http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34613

 

[andyvh1959]

Yup, that's the caliper bracket, but not for a 2001 Dakota. Perhaps you are right, the caliper slide rails may just be part of the spindle casting. If so, I'm out of luck other than finding salvage yard parts, which may also have the notch started. I'll have to look up my service manual to see if it details the parts.

Too bad someone doesn't make a simple stainless steel formed rail cover that would snap on the caliper slide rails and provide a smooth surface for the pads to slide on.

 

[Dodgeballs]

Too bad someone doesn't make a simple stainless steel formed rail cover that would snap on the caliper slide rails and provide a smooth surface for the pads to slide on.

Now that you bring that up.... every set of brake pads I've ever bought (for any vehicle), have come with the steel spring clips/hardware that hold the pads in place and on which they slide. I'm totally not familiar with your 2001 brakes. Is that not the case?
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See this thread where a guy claims to have ground down the rail to get rid of the notch....

http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126589.

If I were you though, I'd look into upgrading to 03-04 front brakes using junkyard parts. Not sure of all the parts that will entail, but it will surely get rid of that rail.

 

[Riggerwings]

Hmm, my '01 has 133K on it. When I bought it, I replaced the pads and the rotors. The brakes squeak every now and again but sometimes they squeak without the pedal being applied. I think I may have some drag as well, I'll have to pay attention to the notch you mentioned. I usually have one wheel more dusty than the other from brake dust as well. If I'm not mistaken, the PS is usually worse than DS.
I also have new drums and shoes in the rear. With all new brakes in the truck, they seem rather weak.

 

[andyvh1959]

Now that you bring that up.... every set of brake pads I've ever bought (for any vehicle), have come with the steel spring clips/hardware that hold the pads in place and on which they slide. I'm totally not familiar with your 2001 brakes. Is that not the case?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See this thread where a guy claims to have ground down the rail to get rid of the notch....
http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126589.
If I were you though, I'd look into upgrading to 03-04 front brakes using junkyard parts. Not sure of all the parts that will entail, but it will surely get rid of that rail.

Nope, no parts that clip onto the slide rails that I know of. Yeah, I checked into that thread as well about the notched rail. Good idea about changing to the 03-04 brakes, that would mean changing out the spindles to get the style that has a replaceable caliper mount bracket. Hey, just answered the question about why there is no caliper bracket for the older Daks. Dodge must have made the change in the spindle design to address the problem with the notched caliper slide rails on high mile Daks.

 

[Dodgeballs]

Good idea about changing to the 03-04 brakes, that would mean changing out the spindles to get the style that has a replaceable caliper mount bracket.

Hey, just sharing this video with you. Don't even bother with 03-04 Durango brake upgrade. Go with the mightier and beefier 03 Durango 4x4 brakes. If I ever have issues with mine, I'll probably upgrade too.

 

[andyvh1959]

Well, since my 01 Dak is a 2-wheel drive the spindles/knuckles on the video don't apply to my Dak. BUT, that means the spindles/brakes from a 03 2WD Durango would be a good upgrade on my Dak. Interesting too, that the 03 brakes upgrade specifically addresses the issues with the notched caliper slide rails on the 01 and older Gen III Dakotas. I noted on the video that the 03 brakes has a separate caliper mount bracket, and also includes caliper slide rail stainless steel clips that the pad ears actually ride on, and not directly on the caliper bracket slide rails. So Dodge obviously knows it had a design flaw on the older Gen III Dak brakes, that once the caliper rail is notched from age, wear, rust, etc the pads drag enough to cause pad wear, excessive pad dust, brake rotor heat buildup/warping, possibly even affect gas mileage.

Since the 03 brakes include the clips that the pad ears ride on, makes me think I could design/fab my own slide rail clips to go over the notched slide rails, like I detail on the attached file

The crappy design on the 01 Dakota is easy to find on other Dodge forums:

http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34613

https://www.allpar.com/forums/threads/2000-2003-dakota-owners-poor-front-brake-design.144513/

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/2000-dodge-dakota-caliper-brackets-are-grooved-pretty-badly

So it is pretty clear the brake design on the 2001 Dak 2WD brakes is well, crappy in that it doesn't account for the exact wear issues and brake drag that I'm experiencing. And really, that my Dak has 193,000 miles on it without some of the other brake issues detailed above I've actually got mine working about as well as they can. I replaced the brake pads over 40,000 miles ago and they still have plenty of pad thickness. I'm surprised Dodge did not at least develop a slide rail clip to address the brake pad wear issues. Either I design some slide rail clips or I change over the brakes to the 2003 design on the 2WD Durango.

 

[Dodgeballs]

If you do design something to clip on, you will need to file down the pad's ears, to make up for the space issue it will cause. Honestly, I'd probably avoid doing this... you just don't know what issues it will cause and we are talking about brakes. Dodge should have recalled these brakes.

 

[andyvh1959]

Perhaps. But using .063" gauge stainless steel would only lift the pads slightly, and the pads typically do not wear into the rotor right out to the edge of the disc. Most often there is at least .095" or more area near the outer circumference of the brake disc that is never contacted by the pads. If it would only slightly lift the pads in the caliper without causing any binding on the caliper slide pins it may work. But point well taken, because there is a a lot more than just fitting clips over the slide rails.

Like was reported on one of the links I posted, the notch can be welded in if the slide rails are pre-heated enough to MIG weld in the material ( I have a MIG welder).

 

[Riggerwings]

So I've been looking up some parts. I found a few things. This is based on my '01 V6 4wd

Rockauto sells calipers that come with the bracket, but not separately. http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,2001,dakota,3.9l+v6,1371877,brake/wheel+hub,caliper,1704
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4596978&cc=1371877&jsn=27
(don't forget they're left/right specific)
Some others on there come with the spring retainer but not the bracket.

Then www.MoparPartDepot.com has the spring retainer, p/n
52010170AB (for my '01 anyway) ($3.60)

I cant find the caliper bracket just yet, not for my model anyway. Check out that site though, maybe they'll have it for yours. Or you can give em a call as well.

 

[andyvh1959]

You can't find the caliper bracket, or caliper adapter as some call it, because there is NO replacement bracket/adapter for the front brakes on the Gen III Dakotas before the 2003 model. In 2003 Dodge drastically changed the spindles/knuckle/caliper/adapter to plan for wear on the caliper slides that is not a feature of the pre-2003 front disc brakes on the Dakota/Durango. That in itself is the issue: when the caliper slide (being integral to the spindle/knuckle casting) wears or becomes notched, the ONLY replacement option is to replace the entire spindle/knuckle casting. We cannot even go to Dodge to buy OEM replacement brackets/adapters because none exist for the pre 2003 models.

Like was detailed earlier, IF Dodge had addressed the wear issue and designed in a replaceable slide rail clip there would be littel caliper drag issues other than those caused by the slide pins. Also, Dodge redesigned the caliper mounting by using the bracket/adapter style caliper mount which also addressed the issues with the slide pin threads cross-threading or threads tearing out, because the bracket/adapter could be replaced and not affect the threaded mount holes on the spindle/knuckle.

So, the options are:
1. Live with the notched slide rails as is and expect faster pad wear/more brake dust/brake drag, possible other brake issues
2. Weld up the notches on the original slide rails, and grind it down smooth, should be good for at least 50,000 miles
3. "Possibly" design and fabricate slide rail clips to go over the stock slide rails for the original pads to ride on in place of the notched rails
4. Replace the entire front spindles/knuckles/calipers with the better design 2003 components
5. Buy a later model Dakota with the better brakes.

 

[andyvh1959]

Hey, just sharing this video with you. Don't even bother with 03-04 Durango brake upgrade. Go with the mightier and beefier 03 Durango 4x4 brakes. If I ever have issues with mine, I'll probably upgrade too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfISYoTklwY

But, my Dak is a 2WD, so the next question is does the brakes (caliper, pads, pins, adapter, etc) of the 03 Durango 4WD brakes fit the spindle/adapter of the 03 Durango 2WD setup? If so that would be a good combination to upgrade the brakes on the 01 2WD Dak.

Also, since I run the stock 16" wheels on Winterforce tires for the Wisconsin winter roads, does the spindle/caliper/rotor fit in the diameter of the stock 16" wheel? For the summer I run 18" Mazzi wheels, but I need the stock 16" wheels in the winter months.

 

[Riggerwings]

Pulled the front drivers wheel off of my '01 this afternoon. I have the warn spots as well (132K miles). It doesn't look all that bad, but it causes the spring retainer to just barely touch the rotor, which makes a line it in and causes an almost constant squeak. The brake pads and rotors were just replaced in May. It used to have a squeak here and there, but now it's almost constant unless the brake is applied.

Sorry if the pic is hard to see. At this point, I wasn't focused on anything in particular. You can see the slight line on the inside of the rotor hub from the spring tensioner rubbing.

 

[Riggerwings]

So I pulled the calipers off ground the worn areas with an angle grinder so they were even. Hopefully that will prevent the brake drag. After I finished up the drivers side, I took apart the passenger side and found this...These pads have less than 10K miles on them. Not sure if it was me or it just broke somehow. It fell apart when I removed it. Anyway, I bought new pads so I had to redo the driver's side as well.



Here you can see the worn spots, probably just enough to keep the pads from moving away from the rotor.



My initial test drive around the neighborhood had no squeaking, hopefully it stays that way. The newer pads were slightly thicker which in turn helped the spring retainer be slightly off of the rotor.

 

[andyvh1959]

1st off, good pictures to show what I first mentioned in this post. Those notches are what i referred to in my initial post, and then don't allow the brake pads to fully retract, which also means the caliper piston doesn't fully retract. The edges of the pad fingers cannot "climb" out of the notches to fully retract from the disc faces. From comparing the two pics it looks like you ground down about at least 1/16" of material to get it smooth again. I bet once the notching starts, the action of driving forward/rotor runout/brake drag makes the pad ears fluctuate inboard/outboard to make the notching increase. I wonder if the brake pad failure was due to heat buildup. Which PS side pad was the failed one, inboard or outboard? Plus it looks like the pads themselves develop a notch in the corner wear they contact the slide rails.

So,...you maintained the same angle on the faces of the slide rails and simply ground them smooth? How much of a gap exists now on the rearward side of the pad edge/pad ears to the lower slide rail? Since any remaining pad drag will cause the pads to rotate to close the gap to the ground down slide rails, the lower pad edge gap to the slide rail will increase. Couple things though:

1. Since the lifetime miles on a vehicle is 99% going forward, and during braking the pads will want to rotate forward until the slide rails stop them, I'd expect the "forward" slide rail on each side of the Dak is worn/notched when the "rearward" slide rail is not worn/notched.
2. So you should only have to grind down the forward direction slide rail on each side of the truck
3. Could part of the pad function is also to support the caliper housing and keep it aligned onto the slide pins, so the caliper can't "rack" or twist on the pins.

Good idea to grind the slide rail smooth, as long as the caliper cannot twist/rack on the slide pins it should reduce the brake drag. Let us know if anything else develops. In wonder too, if you'll get less brake dust buildup on the wheels.

 

[Riggerwings]

There was a slight groove in the lower part of the mount as well. I ground the top and bottom. I figured it would create a gap as well, but it just brings it all a slight bit more towards center. So both ends still touch. I ordered new retainer springs hoping they would hold it a bit more snug than the 16 year old originals. I just don't want a rattle when I hit the brakes.

Even with new pads (again) the brakes are still horrible. I would love to upgrade but it would get rather costly. I don't have any junk/salvage yards nearby so I'd have to travel. I have went to two in the past, both of which didn't have any Dakotas. Never checked for Durangos. I guess I could take a day or so off work and hit a few junk yards in the bigger cities. Maybe walk away with all the parts I need for the swap.

Does anyone know all the parts that will work with our Gen III Dakotas? We know the 03-04 Durango stuff will. But what about 03-04 Dakota, or even newer Dakotas? will any Ram components work?