[WestCoastKevin]

Hello again,
I got the timing chains, gears and the heads off tonight. Someone was inside this engine before me and I hope we never meet.
What would you do at this point if it was yours?

Where I am dong the work. I cannot complain...

The bent pliers and the hook made threading the cable ties around the idler sprocket pretty easy. I do not have that special tool for holding the chains on.

This pissed me off. This is the right hand cam where the sprocket mounts. Someone welded the dowel in position. The worst part is, he welded on the side which burned away some of the dowel so that it is a sloppy fit in the sprocket. If he welded closer to the bolt hole or even the outside edge, the diameter of the dowel could have been preserved for location/fit-up. ...some people. HO Cams anyone? :mullet:

The inside of the cam sprocket wa srelieved for the weld. AGAIN, the location of the weld was amateur. In addition to this, there was a bolt MISSING on the left side upper timing chain guide. $%^$%

Anyway, I got the heads off. They lifted easily. I did not know there was a ground to unhook and had to get that.
This is the left head from the bottom. You can see the area between cylinders #1 and #3. My guess is that they were sucking in some coolant. as well as leaking compression to coolant. I had suspected cylinder #1 as a culprit.

Looking down at the block after removing the head. You can see where coolant entered cylinders #1 and #3. You can make out the damage to the gasket too.

I will need to deglaze/hone (at a minimum) bores #1 and #3.

The left side headgasket, bottom side up. Again you can clearly see the damage between cylinders #1 and #3.

Next, I pulled off the right side head. This looks better than the other one, even with the carbon buildup.

This made me a bit mad. Looking down at cylinder #2 (on the right), you can see damage to the face of the piston where a valve struck it at some point before I owned it.

Here you can see both heads on the workbench. The cams are still in. I will break the heads down next.

So, it looks like I need to pull pistons #1 and #3 for sure and inspect and hone the bores (or more) I probably should pull #2 as well with the damaged piston.
... should I just draw up all 8 of them and inspect the works? I have the time.
What would you do at this point?

Thanks for looking. stay tuned for more...
I am going out to my little pub for a beer now.
Kevin

 

[viperkota]

looking at the line on the 1 and 3 cylinders you had a quite a bit of coolant sit in there. and i didnt realize that the cam pins were welded...at least that i have ever noticed.....i thought they were press fit.

 

[Jarheadoo7]

:waiting: love this stuff

 

[l1tech]

The way I see it you can just redo the head gakets and won't have any problems, cyl 1&3 will be just fine and the valve impression on #2 isn't gonna hurt anything at all. If you pull 2 pistons to hone out the cylinders and replace the other piston due to the valve mark(this ain't a Nascar or top fuel motor) you have to go all the way and just rebuild the bottom end.

 

[Dj Wolf]

damn man that sucks. If it were me i would inspect the whole block, considering what they did to the dowel on the cam

I have a low mileage 04 block stripped down as far as yours all you would need to do is put on your heads, tone ring on crank, and then redo the timing. that way you could skip honing the block inspecting all the cylinders and getting new pistons. I could meet you part way if your interested

 

[WestCoastKevin]

The way I see it you can just redo the head gakets and won't have any problems, cyl 1&3 will be just fine and the valve impression on #2 isn't gonna hurt anything at all. If you pull 2 pistons to hone out the cylinders and replace the other piston due to the valve mark(this ain't a Nascar or top fuel motor) you have to go all the way and just rebuild the bottom end.

This would not be such a big issue except for the half dozen corners that were cut by the last guy. The missing timing chain tensioner bolt was serious, more so than the welded dowel. There were a few other things out of place along the way too.
I will inspect the whole thing a bit more closely tomorrow night (or the next). I plan on keeping this durango for a while, so I do not mind putting a bit of time in.
I will measure the bores for taper and roundness. I am nervous that there might be a bent rod under piston number two (with the valve mark). I want to check that bore for abnormal wear. Again, if it were not for all of the other shortcuts I saw, I would completely agree with you about piston #2. As it is, I am a bit nervous.

FYI, back when the water pump failed and the engine originally overheated, it got hot enough to cook the oil and stopped by itself. As a result, I want to inspect the pistons and rings in #1 and #3. I will pull those two (along with #2) and inspect the rings for sure. I can spend a bit of time without spending any money.
Thanks for your input. It all helps to keep me on track with this project.
Kevin

 

[WestCoastKevin]

looking at the line on the 1 and 3 cylinders you had a quite a bit of coolant sit in there. and i didnt realize that the cam pins were welded...at least that i have ever noticed.....i thought they were press fit.

The engine actually started and ran (fine). It only would blow into the cooling system when it got hot. I was originally concerned about a cracked or warped head. I need to have the left head checked for sure.
The cam dowels are not supposed to be welded.
Kevin

 

[l1tech]

FYI, back when the water pump failed and the engine originally overheated, it got hot enough to cook the oil and stopped by itself. As a result, I want to inspect the pistons and rings in #1 and #3. I will pull those two (along with #2) and inspect the rings for sure. I can spend a bit of time without spending any money.
Thanks for your input. It all helps to keep me on track with this project.
Kevin

And now I know the rest of the story. Under those circumstances
I would probably do the same thing but being that it would be alot easier to get the oil pan off to pull the pistons with the engine out at that point I would just bite the bullet and go 10 over on the pistons throw some bearings at it and be done with it.

 

[WestCoastKevin]

And now I know the rest of the story. Under those circumstances
I would probably do the same thing but being that it would be alot easier to get the oil pan off to pull the pistons with the engine out at that point I would just bite the bullet and go 10 over on the pistons throw some bearings at it and be done with it.

The manual says that I have to lower the axle to drop the pan. That sounds like work As you said, lifting out the block seems like the thing to do at this point. It would make it a LOT easier on the install side too because I assemble a lot of it offline. That appeals to me. I do not own a hoist or an engine stand so I have to think a little about how to go about this. I might have to hit craigslist or harbor freight or try to borrow them.
Thx,
Kevin

 

[chad72]

at this point with all the issues you have found, if you are keeping the durango and have the time, do it all now. I would go and inspect the whole block,pistons,rings, crank,etc. do a complete rebuild now that you have gone this far. and most of all it will put your mind at ease. Now when you put the heads back on I would seriously think of getting the cometic head gaskets from air ram.

 

[WestCoastKevin]

at this point with all the issues you have found, if you are keeping the durango and have the time, do it all now. I would go and inspect the whole block,pistons,rings, crank,etc. do a complete rebuild now that you have gone this far. and most of all it will put your mind at ease. Now when you put the heads back on I would seriously think of getting the cometic head gaskets from air ram.

I plan on keeping it for a few years for sure and I will absolutely do it right.
Although I am not a mechanic by trade, I have spent 10 years working as a machinist (manual and CNC) and still have all of my measuring tools (even calibrated). Also my dad is a mechanic with going on 40 years in the trade and I grew up working on diesel engines/gearboxes. He lives very far away from me but I have first class phone consults I am not naturally inclined to "hot rod" it but I want to put it back with not a single bolt out of place, my peace of mind is worth that. If there are some low hanging fruit type upgrades that will not compromise reliability or completely break the bank, I am interested. All things considered, I am having more fun doing this than I have had in a long time. (And I get to buy tools and beer instead of paying $100/hr to someone)

Now, I will definitely need help CHOOSING the right parts to put back on and which gaskets to use. I had heard that Felpro and cometic were good, but really do not know much about the choices out there. I am researching a lot here for the last week or so

Thanks for the input, please keep it coming. All of my pictures might be redundant but I just they might help the next poor fool doing this.
Kevin

 

[l1tech]

Felpro or OE...thos are the only 2 choices IMO.

 

[Durango Bill]

Offer up my 2 cents , as I just went through doing motor on my durango last month

you may or may not have done this already- After removing radiator , remove the radiator support only 4 bolts holding it there , makes removing motor a whole easier not to mention the room it gives you.

The motor mounts - I removed the actual top part from the mount leaving the plate attached to the block I think its a 17 or 18mm bolt , these damn mounts are staggered and are a PITA

Being that you already removed the heads and intake it will be a breeze getting to the 2 upper bell housing bolts , which someone at DODGE thought was a good idea to run wiring harness right across the top of them with virtually no slack and with heads on the motor is no fun chore getting to them.

As far as underneath the truck not too bad except for the thousand and one damn brackets ( I may be exaggerating just a little) around the bottom of the bellhousing..like a damn puzzle . I did not remove the front drive shaft as I was able to get to all the bolt fairly easy but in if I had to do again I think I would remove it to free up some space, I would place a jack stand or floor jack under the third member as you remove the brackets on the drivers side the diff will drop down some.

When reinstalling the motor I would definatley leave the heads off to after you get the motor back in , there is not a whole lot of room in the to maneuver not to mention the very limited space between heads and firewall i.e. the upper bell housing bolts will also make it alot easier aligning the motor mounts.

One other note - when installing the heads check,double check quad, dropple check your timing marks it is very easy to get 1 tooth off , If memory serves me right Rotate engine two full revolutions. Verify timing marks are at the follow locations:
primary chain idler sprocket dot is at 12 o'clock
primary chain crankshaft sprocket dot is at 6 o'clock
secondary chain camshaft sprockets "V8" marks are at 12 o'clock

When I did my 4.7 , complete gasket set/ timing chains set/ and oil pump was close to $800.00 but I went with Mopar hard parts and felpro gaskets gaskets alone was $300.00

Bill

 

[chad72]

The oe head gaskets are the weak point, the cometic ones are by far superior to the stock. If you have the time, do the whole motor. rings,bearings, timing, etc. everything. not only will it give you piece of mind but if done right, will last a long time. Machine shops are generally reasonable with their prices, so get the block,crank,heads done. and find a set of ho cams to throw in. well worth it since its torn down anyway, and no special tuneing is required.

 

[burganb]

Inspect what you can and evaluate your situation. Be prepared to chunk away soe money into that Magnum if you want to rebuild it. If you do it yourself though it shouldn't be to terribly bad.

 

[Jasoon]

Hemi Swap :huh:

 

[Devil_dog_switc]

i still remember being forced to rebuild the motor in my old taurus.. fuckin oil change place punctured my radiator and i didn't know it till about 25 miles later on the hwy when my heads blew (don't ask why i didn't change it myself.. still trying to figure that out) took a few weekends since i had to wait on parts.. middle of december, 9 inches of snow and i was working outside at night (i worked nights so it was the only time i was up)

still.. having got it running again i did have fun.. almost wish i could rebuild again.. just not mine lol.

:waiting::waiting::banana2: