[petrock]

Hey,
I'm seriously freaking out.

This weekend my truck rolled the 10,000 mile mark. So, like a good D owner it was time to change the oil, filter and rotate tires etc...

Drove the truck around to warm up the engine etc. Everything was great until I popped the hood and opened the oil inlet (where you add oil to the engine). I was shocked to find this yellowish-brown substance inside. Looked like butterscotch pudding. It didn't have an oder or anything, but light fumes were coming out of the inlet.

I then go under the truck to check out the oil filter... I was shocked AGAIN!!! It was bloated, and the paint on the filter seemed to have bubbled up on.

This is BAD. VERY BAD!!! But the truck is performing like normal. No funky noises, the thermostat is reading normal, oil pressure gauge is smack dab in the middle, no check engine light etc. No warning that something might be wrong.

I'm going to bring it into the dealership tomorrow to get them to figure out what is going on, and fix it under the warranty. But before I do I want to have some knowledge of whats going on, so I can pimp-slap them when/if they try to not honor the warranty...

First, the only mod I have on the truck is a 360 Airintakez. Could that have contributed to it? Water in the intake that kind of thing. I haven't driven through any major rain storms since I installed it less then a month ago.

Second, what could the pudding be? Burned/foamed oil? I used the owners manuals recommended weight Castrol oil the last time I changed the oil (5000 miles ago).

Third, What would cause the oil filter to bloat like that? Excess oil pressure?

Thanks alot....

 

[SSRage]

http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=564&highlight=sludge

Check this link out. I had this same problem on mine and you can see what the rest of the guys wrote. The sludge itself is not a problem... the dealer can explain that to you. Now the bloated oil filter that sounds like either a pressure problem or the filter is a POS.

 

[petrock]

Hey, thanks for the reply and the link. I was starting to think water got into the oil and might have screwed things up. The filter being bloated is still conserning me though. Anyone know what that would indicate is wrong? Thanks...

I'm going to take the truck to the dealer today. Just to be safe, I'm going to put the OEM air intake back on the truck, so they don't have a chance to bitch at me about it...

 

[SSRage]

They can't bitch at you for the intake. Plus to get that much water in there you would have to run with the TB open with no filter. Plus that much water coming in through the top would not end up in the crank case like that. It would either all vaporize upon detonation or flood the motor. And you would definetly notice that. About the sludge and the dealer tell them that you had heard about a TSB being issued for the 4.7L's about a sludge problem and that you are concerned. If the dealer gives you any chit about aftermarket stuff you are protected up to a point by the Moss-Magnussen Act that prohibits dealers from nullifying/voiding warranty work unless that they can prove that the aftermarket part was the direct cause of the problem. They didn't give me any grief about my intake.

 

[petrock]

ARRRRGGGHHH!!! Ok, heres the latest. The dealer called me today to tell me the "good news". According to them, the truck is fine. The pudding is "excess condensation" that evaporates. Ok, whatever...

Now for the agrivating part. The Oil Filter. It is a FRAM Extra Guard filter. They are claiming that because its an aftermarket filter, they aren't going to look into whats wrong. If I had a Mopar filter on the truck then they would because they would "know" it wasn't the filter that was the problem. GRRRRR!!!! I know thats bullshlt.

I'm going to take pictures of the filter on the truck, and after I take it off. Put a Mopar filter on the truck. If it happens again with the Mopar filter I'm going to pimp-slap the tech.... WTF!!!

I just hope that my motor doesn't blow up. Wish me luck...

 

[SSRage]

Well, if it does blow up with the mopar filter on there then you are covered. I run bosch filters on my dakota, 93 mustang, and my girls gran prix gtp. My F250 diesels takes a filter the size of a five gallon drum so I use the motorcraft on that one. I personally think it was the filter stopping up. I have never cared for Frams. They also gave me the excessive condensation spiel when I took mine it. As long as there is a TSB on it you are covered should the motor ever puke out for that reason.

 

[olsarge]

They have to prove that the aftermarket filter caused the problem. They know better.

 

[petrock]

True, but the only real problem was that the filter was boated. The gauges etc were not showing anything out of the ordinary. So the only real "problem" was that the filter was bloated. If a guage or check engine light etc we showing a problem, then they would have to prove that the filter was the cause.... Grrr... catch 22. Gotta wait for something to go horibbly/noticably wrong before they'll actually do something about it... No prevention on their part... At least its still under warrenty for another 20,000 miles. If somethings going to go bad, it will by then.

 

[cpa7man]

The only way to be sure that you don't have a sludge problem is to pull the oil pan and inspect. There are lots of reports of these engines sludging up and clogging the oil pump. These people have records to prove 3000 mile oil changes and have reported problems getting Dodge to fix the motors. I can't remember the web sites but if you search for Dodge Durango on Yahoo and scroll down several pages you will find the message boards. There's also a web site Ihatedodgedurangos.com or something like that.
That said I'm looking for a 5.9 Durango.

My RX-7's (I have 4 of them) do develop the oil foam condensation on the inside of the oil cap. It is not uncommon. But with the reports of sludging in the 4.7 I would pull the oil pan if I suspected anything. Also the filter doing that would scare the shit out of me. You won't know you have an oil pressure problem until the engine is toast. Been there, done that.

Edit: the advice by ssrage is a good. Complain to the dealer now that you might have a sludge problem get it on the repair order. If it comes up out of warrany later you have a chance on getting Dodge to fix it for you.

 

[SSRage]

I agree with Cpa - get everything on record. Keep all your oil change receipts, service documents, and anything else the dealer gives you.

About pulling the oil pan cuz of the sludge I would be leary of doing this. I check my oil about every 1000 miles and have yet to find any hint of anything in the crank case. I've also got 25k miles on my truck. I think personally as long as you stick to a non parafin based motor oil (I use Valvoline, always have and always will), you shouldn't have to worry about any buildup. Unless you are using really crappy oil like say straight out of the ground thats not filtered you shouldn't be getting dirt and crap like that in there... thats what filters are for. Or the dealer leaves your oil fill cap off and you drive for 800 miles and not even realize it (me).

P.S. - Cpa7man, what type of RX-7's do you have? I've been looking for a 95 model. I like those!

 

[cpa7man]

P.S. - Cpa7man, what type of RX-7's do you have? I've been looking for a 95 model. I like those!

Valvoline I use it to.

I know pulling the oil pan is extreme. The filter failing like that is weird. I would want to do further exploratory work to determine the cause of the filter failure.

I've got 2 1994 RX-7's (street cars)
1 1984 SCCA ITA race car. (curently racing)
1 1985 SCCA E-Prod race car in the works.

and a very understanding wife.

 

[SSRage]

Cpa7, got any pics of the RX-7's? Those are truly my favorite cars. Your wife is a keeper then. My girl gets mad at me for even thinking about stuff. I got too many toys anyway. Oh, wait a guy can never have too many toys!!

 

[cpa7man]

pics of the 7's

 

[cpa7man]

Sorry to hijack your thread petrock

Pic of the running racecar, other car is under construction.

 

[SSRage]

Yeah, sorry about that Petrock! :hijack:

 

[petrock]

no problem...

 

[SSRage]

Pet, what ever happened at the dealer with the sludge and filter?

 

[Y2KOTA]

Here some info I posted about this.... Oil slop.

 

[cpa7man]

Here some info I posted about this.... Oil slop.

Good info, thanks.

 

[petrock]

Yeah, great info. My truck already came with that baffle thing and the new cap. The insides looked pretty much like your pictures.

As far as the dealer, they said that the butterscotch was a design flaw in the oil inlet and would not damage the engine.

They also said that since I used an after market oil filter, and there were no other warning signs (warning lights going off, engine not running properly etc), they chalked it up to it being a bad filter. They also noted that if i was using a Mopar filter that they would have looked deeper into the problem (meaning, actually looked at the engine). So I bought a new mopar filter and put it on. We'll see what happens.

Thanks for the help...