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kaui56 said:
what do you think is better coil springs or control arm? then tell us why.
You are talking about two completely different things! The control arms locate the position of the wheel and provides the pivots for the wheel to travel thru it's arc as you go over bumps lean into corners and such. The coil spring is what resists that motion and holds the vehicle up. You can't have a suspension without both.

Now if you really mean coils springs and torsion bars then you can make a comparison. In reality they are one in the same thing, the forces in the metal in a coil spring are identical to those in a torsion bar. One is not better than the other from that perspective.

Each has some distinct advantages over the other in certain situations.

Coil springs on a 2wd vehicle provide for a compact suspension design. A coil spring can be wound so it provides a progressive rate, that is softer in the intial travel of the suspension then getting stiffer as it gets closer to the limits.

On a 4wd vehicle with independant front suspension coil springs become less desirable because you have axles in between the upper and lower control arms. The coil would have to act on the upper control arm, this starts to make the suspension less compact and can start to dictate the styling of the front of the vehicle and intrude into the engine compartment. The torsion bar allows for the suspension to remain compact still acting on the lower control arm but being placed under the vehicle where it does not impact other design features. The torsion bar, however, can not pratically be made progressive (you would need a away to effectively shorten it as the suspension goes threw it's travel.

Hope this is the info you were looking for.
 
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If you drop a car using shorter springs then the suspension is now operating at the extremes of it's range. This messes up the geometery and can/will cause all kinds of handling quirks.

You are much better off going with redesigned control arms or spindles that keeps the geometry of the suspension in it's proper relation ships.
 

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Unfortunately no one makes drop spindles for genIII dakotas and unless you want a wider turning radius i wouldnt go with control arms. IMO, coils are a much better route if you want a drop. Just dont get caught up in those $60 pair of springs b/c those will really screw up your ride. Go with big name brands like Hotchkis, Belltech, or DJM coils.
 
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Why would control arms increase the turning radius?

I could understand if they are poorly dsigned they might but reconfiguring the control arms to lower the front end does not need to mean an impact in the turning radius.

Even a small increase in truning radius would be preferable to using a shorter coil spring from a geometer stand point.

FWIW, my son went the control arm route on his GMC, there was no noticable impact to the turning radius.
 
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control arms

I installed control arms in front a hangers in back of my 01 rt

the out come was ok handling was effected big time suspension was bouncy even changed to toxic shocks, stock tires rubbed tops of fenders, rims hit control arms. I had to buy some lower profiles tires and diffrent rims with diffrent offset, diffrent shocks and it still handled like crap. If you cant live without droppin it do your home work talk to as many people as you can... the hotchkis setup looks good but I dont know.

john
 

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dropping

Not to bust anyone's chops. But when i bought my 3/3 Drop from DJM, it clearly stated "Can not use stock tires with this product". I have the lower controls in the front/blocks in the rear and my driving is smooth. People always ask me how I lowered it because the ride is so smooth. I believe that answer is in the lower control arms because you are still useing the stock spring. That is just my two cents.

Later,
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: dropping

D-Draggin said:
Not to bust anyone's chops. But when i bought my 3/3 Drop from DJM, it clearly stated "Can not use stock tires with this product". I have the lower controls in the front/blocks in the rear and my driving is smooth. People always ask me how I lowered it because the ride is so smooth. I believe that answer is in the lower control arms because you are still useing the stock spring. That is just my two cents.

Later,
thats exactly what i thought about the spring swap...but hotchkis changes the spring so that gotta be a good thing right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: control arms

my element said:
I installed control arms in front a hangers in back of my 01 rt

the out come was ok handling was effected big time suspension was bouncy even changed to toxic shocks, stock tires rubbed tops of fenders, rims hit control arms. I had to buy some lower profiles tires and diffrent rims with diffrent offset, diffrent shocks and it still handled like crap. If you cant live without droppin it do your home work talk to as many people as you can... the hotchkis setup looks good but I dont know.

john
shocks make a big difference, also your stock tires...toxic shocks suck first of all and to combine a stiff shock with stock tires=bouncy ride. performance shocks like tokiko or bilstien or even rancho shocks that are adjustable are a good way to go.
as far as the control arms...i dont see how that could effect the ride quality because all it is doing is bringing the top of the stock spring down.
did you happen to change your bump stops/ they could be hitting also causing a rough ride.
 
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Re: dropping

D-Draggin said:
Not to bust anyone's chops. But when i bought my 3/3 Drop from DJM, it clearly stated "Can not use stock tires with this product". I have the lower controls in the front/blocks in the rear and my driving is smooth. People always ask me how I lowered it because the ride is so smooth. I believe that answer is in the lower control arms because you are still useing the stock spring. That is just my two cents.

Later,
I was going to post that lol. Your using the stock spring. By using the stock spring the spring rate is the same therefor you will ride the same. By changing the spring with a lowering spring you will more than likely getting a high spring rate. Spring rate is rated in pounds/inch which mean it take x amount of pounds to compress the spring one inch. so a high spring rate will make your ride bouncy.
 
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If you put a high spring rate spring into stock susp. it will raise the vehicle. High spring rate means more weight to compress the same amount therefore with the same weight on the spring it will not be caompressed as much. Lowwering springs are lowwer than stock spring rate thereby allowing it to compress more and lowwer your ride.

Although you may argue that they use a high spring rate and just make the spring shorter but on the same token they could use the stock spring rate and a shorter spring resulting in a lowwered truck with the same ride as a stock truck.

The good kits use the later of the two.

Oh and as far a turrning radius is concered control arms change the geometry more than you think. It has to do with the SLA susp. setup in our daks. by droping the lowwer control arm you affectivly change the angle at which the tire will rotate when turrning.

Bottom line if you touch your susp. you have deviated from stock and it will never be the same. Alignment angles are not just for tire wear but they are also for ride, handelling, and road feel. When you lowwer you change what the vehicle will require. Going to stock angles you will prevent tire wear but will not get the best road feel and handelling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
all the lowering springs that i have seen are shorter than stock and i assumed the spring rate is higer than stock making it a stiffer ride, but you'd have better cornering right? and the control arms...does it affect the way the truck would corner at higher speeds?
 
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04dak said:
If you put a high spring rate spring into stock susp. it will raise the vehicle. High spring rate means more weight to compress the same amount therefore with the same weight on the spring it will not be caompressed as much. Lowwering springs are lowwer than stock spring rate thereby allowing it to compress more and lowwer your ride.
Correct me if I read this wrong, but Springs come in all heights and rates. Lowering springs, maybe some but not all like you make it seem, are not always a lowering spring rate. In the sport compact scene the popular thing is a lower spring with a higher rate. This does 2 things lowers the center of gravity and reduces body roll, thus increases handling and steering response greatly. Not trying to be a dick but you made it seem like all lowering springs are a low rate.
 
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No offence taken. I wasn't terriblly clear, my fault.

Other note the el'cheapo way to lowwer the smoke wrench (a.k.a. torch) weakens the spring to make it have a lowwer spring rate thus lowwering and givving a bumpy ride. Although i don't see it too much did on a carpalier i mean cavaler once. Alingment nightmare....
 
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