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Discussion Starter #1
Got my new piston and connecting rod today but it has new rings on it. WOuld like to use the old rings to keep everything in the engine equal. Has anyone ever removed rings and replaced rings before? It is calling for a special tool which doesn't look like an old school piston ring tool. I'm guessing it will be a fun little tool to try and track down too. No dealers around me even do engine work on the 4.7L so none of them have the tools.

 

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Turbo Dakota Junkie
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I think you are asking for the opportunity to break your old rings trying to get them off the old piston and asking for the opportunity to break the new rings taking them off as well. Then you are asking for the opportunity to break the rings one last time to install them on the new piston. I would leave the new rings on the new piston and put it together.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
What about the increase in compression from the new ring? It would be unbalanced in the engine then.
 

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Turbo Dakota Junkie
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I don't think it would increase the compression at all. You either had the rings sealing in the engine before - or it was making all kinds of blow-by. As long as you still had crosshatch in the cylinder bores, it's all good.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't think it would increase the compression at all. You either had the rings sealing in the engine before - or it was making all kinds of blow-by. As long as you still had crosshatch in the cylinder bores, it's all good.

Good point. I see a little crosshatch left, not much though. I was also considering rehoning the cylinder and then running conventional for a while to properly break the new ring in. THen I would switch to synthetic in 2 oil changes.
 

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www.AIRRAM.com
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Hone the cylinder that's getting the new rings. <--- This is a MUST!

Other then that... I would not mess with the others unless your doing a complete rebuild. In that case it would be a good time to replace all the bearings... why not, your in there mine as well get er dun.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 

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if you end up needing one later, you can get that tool at harbour freight. just saw it the other day.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well, Maybe it wasn't the best thing to do but it was what I felt better with, so I took the old rings and put them on the new piston to keep everything the same in terms of wear. I used a normal rnig installer and was able to do it easily, and I had 8 pistons from the old engine to practice on, first one was enough though, no problems.
 

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Well, Maybe it wasn't the best thing to do but it was what I felt better with, so I took the old rings and put them on the new piston to keep everything the same in terms of wear. I used a normal rnig installer and was able to do it easily, and I had 8 pistons from the old engine to practice on, first one was enough though, no problems.

So you installed new rings and you did not hone the block? :jawdrop:

Was that a joke or where you just messing with us... I hope you where messing with us (For your sake)

I agree that was not the best thing. That was most likely one of the worst thing you could have done... Well you could have done worse but that certainly was not a good idea. How are your new rings supposed to seat & seal without fresh hone marks? This is a critical step in EVERY engine ever built. Honing is not for decoration it serves to seat your rings to increase sealing and prevent blow-by.

Also, rings have an UP & DOWN side... I hope you took note of the thrust side of the rings and installed them correctly.

I wish you the best of luck... I really do.


SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If you re-read the post before I said I took the old rings and put them on the new piston. The new rings are not going in the engine. Since I reinstalled the old rings which were in spec per the factory service manual I did not hone the cylinder. THe manual goes into the procedure for removing, inspecting, and reinstalling the rings so I figured it would be safe to do so.

I know better than to put new rings in without honing. :funny:

But after studying the factory service manual for a while and practicing the removal of the rings from an old piston I decided it was simple enough and wuold be better to match the other 7 pistons in the engine. I still have the head off, but based on what the FSM says I shouldn't need to rehone unless I used new rings, which I didn't.

I even made sure that the gaps were correctly laid out per the manual also, so no two gaps are overlapping in rings.

Oh, and yes I did install them back in correctly, where up is up.
 

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If you re-read the post before I said I took the old rings and put them on the new piston. The new rings are not going in the engine. Since I reinstalled the old rings which were in spec per the factory service manual I did not hone the cylinder. THe manual goes into the procedure for removing, inspecting, and reinstalling the rings so I figured it would be safe to do so.

I know better than to put new rings in without honing. :funny:

But after studying the factory service manual for a while and practicing the removal of the rings from an old piston I decided it was simple enough and wuold be better to match the other 7 pistons in the engine. I still have the head off, but based on what the FSM says I shouldn't need to rehone unless I used new rings, which I didn't.

I even made sure that the gaps were correctly laid out per the manual also, so no two gaps are overlapping in rings.

Oh, and yes I did install them back in correctly, where up is up.
OK... good deal... I mis read your post and thought the opposite.. :sorry:


Well you may be alright then. I never re-used rings but I dont see why they would not work if they all went back where they came from.

Keep us posted. :waiting:

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 

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I am a Diesel tech by nature and have built many gas engines to date. There is a problem with using old rings in a new piston. (1) They are worn from the movement of the piston going up and down even though they are in an aluminum piston. (2) They will not seat properly because now that you have spread them to install onto the new piston, they lost their spring tension that will allow them to seal tighter in the cylinder. I do not care what manual you are reading and what it says to do, the right and only way is to get a beaterball or dingleberry ball and put new crosshatch marks back into that cylinder and use that new piston with the new rings! Honing out a cylinder takes out material, using the above balls just deglazes and puts in the cross hatch marks for the new stuff to seal and does not take out material. You do what you want but your concern that this piston will have better compression than the rest is very minute compared to what you are doing. I have always put new rings even on old pistons on diesel engines and even just put new rings on one piston and that never made a difference in the running of the engine. There is the right way an the hack way of doing things and the outcome of the two will be very noticeable in the end!!
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I am a Diesel tech by nature and have built many gas engines to date. There is a problem with using old rings in a new piston. (1) They are worn from the movement of the piston going up and down even though they are in an aluminum piston. (2) They will not seat properly because now that you have spread them to install onto the new piston, they lost their spring tension that will allow them to seal tighter in the cylinder. I do not care what manual you are reading and what it says to do, the right and only way is to get a beaterball or dingleberry ball and put new crosshatch marks back into that cylinder and use that new piston with the new rings! Honing out a cylinder takes out material, using the above balls just deglazes and puts in the cross hatch marks for the new stuff to seal and does not take out material. You do what you want but your concern that this piston will have better compression than the rest is very minute compared to what you are doing. I have always put new rings even on old pistons on diesel engines and even just put new rings on one piston and that never made a difference in the running of the engine. There is the right way an the hack way of doing things and the outcome of the two will be very noticeable in the end!!
Thanks. :)

This is why I haven't put the heads back on yet so I could make sure I could undo this is if I needed to before I put everything back together tonight.

After thinking everythign over and rereading all the posts from everyone I think I am going to go back and use the new piston rings.
 

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I am not downing anyone in what they read or do here. Just offering my 2c worth and some knowledge. Hope that I clarified some issues that you may have had.
 
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