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4.7 swap

7K views 48 replies 12 participants last post by  andyvh1959 
#1 ·
Hello everybody I'm new on here I am looking for some information I have a 2003 Dodge Dakota SLT extended cab 4.7 v8 and I am looking either to get another 4.7 and build it or get a bigger motor which I need to know what would be the best way to go? Should I go with a hemi any information would help I get confused on here because everybody talks about different stuff I just don't know what I will fit down in my truck thank you for your help
 
#2 ·
Hemi swap would be ideal. For the sake of ease, I'm thinking about swapping an '08+ 4.7 into my 2003 Dakota. It only takes a tiny bit of fab work and costs a whole lot less than a Hemi swap. If you search for "Dakota Hemi swap" on here or on Google, you'll find a bunch of stuff. Holley makes motor and trans mounts that allow the Hemi to drop right in, but they aren't cheap.
 
#3 ·
Hemi swap would be ideal? How do you know? If that's the case why aren't you doing it?

What do you use your truck for? Everyday driver? Strip? Towing? Off-Road? Groceries? Show truck? Commuting?

My point obviously is that a Hemi swap is not necessarily ideal.

What's wrong with your current 4.7 ? There are clearly things you can do, short of a swap, to get more performance and without dropping a ton of cash.
 
#4 ·
Hemi swap would be ideal? How do you know? If that's the case why aren't you doing it?

What do you use your truck for? Everyday driver? Strip? Towing? Off-Road? Groceries? Show truck? Commuting?

My point obviously is that a Hemi swap is not necessarily ideal.

What's wrong with your current 4.7 ? There are clearly things you can do, short of a swap, to get more performance and without dropping a ton of cash.
Thank you for replying I use it for an everyday driver I do haul a little wood here and there with it I just want more power torque it cuts off at 98 mile an hour and it's got so much more I can go I just replace the head gaskets and had the heads rebuilt but nothing to performance just all factory
 
#5 ·
I got the truck for $500 and it had a blown head gasket and I tore it down replace the head gaskets and had the heads shipped off and redone I didn't go in and put no performance stuff in like I should have at the time didn't have the money but I use it as a daily driver I'll call firewood with it drive it back and forth to work I just want to build it up to have more power and torque play around have a little project put a little money in it because there's nothing wrong with the truck whatsoever no rust no nothing it came out of Florida so I bought it from a kid in Johnson City Tennessee there's so many people that's told me this that and the third I'm trying to find some people that knows what they're talking about when it comes to Mopar and Dodges because I just don't want to do something stupid and spend a lot of money that ain't going to work so I'm on here trying to get some ideas and hopefully somebody can help me thanks
 
#6 ·
The cost and complexity of a Hemi swap is probably overkill for you then. You could start with bolt-ons like cold air intake, headers & exhaust, maybe a tune, then see if you still need more power....

Jeremy's idea of the later 4.7L engine is also a good idea if you want to go that far. Those engines make significantly more power than the early gens. And you can also use the cams and intake from the H.O. engines, I think those are '04 and up.

You can even make noticeable gains just by removing your mechanical fan in favor of a better electric cooling fan setup.

Let's face it -- a lot of us are still driving these old Daks because we don't want to spend $55,000 on a new truck. Count me in that group. Likewise, I'm not going to throw thousands into my 20 year old Dak, which in reality is maybe worth $6 - 7 K in todays market -- even though the body is mint and that's a rarity here in the rust belt. Sure, I'd like more power, but I can live with the mild tweaks I've done. When/if I need an exhaust system -- I may reconsider and put a little money into a less restrictive one.
 
#9 ·
I have the Superchips tuner for my '03 4.7 and it's very limited on what it can do. It can't remove the speed limiter. It does add "octane" modes, towing, tire sizes, and not much else of any use.
 
#10 ·
The great thing about the 4.7L is that it was built so under powered that its very responsive to bolt on's. The 4.7L makes 175-180RWHP from the factory... with 08+intake manifold, 70mm throttle body, cold air intake, HO cams or 2008+ Cams, electric fan, ATI superdamper with 25% underdrive pulley, headers, a true 3.0" exhaust and custom tuning... (Basically all available bolt ons minus ported heads) we can get that 175-180RWHP up to 245-250RWHP... thats 70HP gain with bolt ons!

To put this into perspective, the HEMI RAMs where putting down 250-260RWHP... So a 4.7L with bolt ons CAN make HEMI power.

Adding our Race Prepped heads with the above mods & custom tuning, we can get 315-320RWHP.

At the end of the day, all the mods above would cost less than a HEMI swap...

if you have any questions or concerns about building your 4.7L, feel free to contact me.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM PERFORMANCE
 
#11 ·
The great thing about the 4.7L is that it was built so under powered that its very responsive to bolt on's. The 4.7L makes 175-180RWHP from the factory... with 08+intake manifold, 70mm throttle body, cold air intake, HO cams or 2008+ Cams, electric fan, ATI superdamper with 25% underdrive pulley, headers, a true 3.0" exhaust and custom tuning... (Basically all available bolt ons minus ported heads) we can get that 175-180RWHP up to 245-250RWHP... thats 70HP gain with bolt ons!

To put this into perspective, the HEMI RAMs where putting down 250-260RWHP... So a 4.7L with bolt ons CAN make HEMI power.

Adding our Race Prepped heads with the above mods & custom tuning, we can get 315-320RWHP.

At the end of the day, all the mods above would cost less than a HEMI swap...

if you have any questions or concerns about building your 4.7L, feel free to contact me.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM PERFORMANCE
So you're saying I can take a 2008 intake manifold off of hemi and throttle body and bolt it on a 4.7
 
#18 ·
The 4.7 is an overhead cam motor, so there are two cams. The only real options are either factor High Output cams or 08+ cams. There are three timing chains to mess with and it's a bit of an involved job. Search the forums for "4.7 cam swap" to find some instructions.
 
#20 ·
The 4.7 is an overhead cam motor, so there are two cams. The only real options are either factor High Output cams or 08+ cams. There are three timing chains to mess with and it's a bit of an involved job. Search the forums for "4.7 cam swap" to find some instructions.
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The 4.7 is an overhead cam motor, so there are two cams. The only real options are either factor High Output cams or 08+ cams. There are three timing chains to mess with and it's a bit of an involved job. Search the forums for "4.7 cam swap" to find some instructions.
I've been doing some research I just put a new timing chain and everything in this thing and the only thing that I came up with is a oh Cam out of a newer model I guess because my heads do not have the oh stamped in it so I reckon mine is just the standard and I was also looking at intakes also because there's a bigger intake from a newer model I think. And what did you mean by the 08 + cams sorry for all the questions I'm kind of dumb when it comes to stuff like this I can do the mechanical work easily it's just getting the specs right
 
#21 ·
All 4.7's are overhead cam engines. So either you have a 4.7 overhead cam engine, or you don't have a 4.7.

In 2008, the 4.7 went through some engineering upgrades and they bumped the power up quite a bit. I believe the cams were more aggressive, which helped the horsepower bump. If I'm wrong about that, I hope someone will correct me. The HO cams out of high output 4.7's are definitely an upgrade either way.
 
#23 ·
All 4.7's are overhead cam engines. So either you have a 4.7 overhead cam engine, or you don't have a 4.7.

In 2008, the 4.7 went through some engineering upgrades and they bumped the power up quite a bit. I believe the cams were more aggressive, which helped the horsepower bump. If I'm wrong about that, I hope someone will correct me. The HO cams out of high output 4.7's are definitely an upgrade either way.
All 4.7's are overhead cam engines. So either you have a 4.7 overhead cam engine, or you don't have a 4.7.

In 2008, the 4.7 went through some engineering upgrades and they bumped the power up quite a bit. I believe the cams were more aggressive, which helped the horsepower bump. If I'm wrong about that, I hope someone will correct me. The HO cams out of high output 4.7's are definitely an upgrade either way.
Oh ok so they would fit in my 4.7
 
#22 ·
Wikipedia says there was a "HO" - high output - version available for Jeeps as early as 2002. Didn't get to Dakota until 2007. Then in 2008 the engine was changed significantly -- 2 plugs per cylinder, higher compression, better intake, etc....


A good swap might be to find a 2002/3/4 4.7L HO engine from a Jeep. Gets you 30 more HP.
 
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#31 ·
Hello, Air Ram
My names Alex, I have a couple questions for you. I see your name alot around here so i figure you may know. I have a 2008 dodge 4.7L so i have the HO edition of this engine correct? It had engine knock around 95k miles. Just got done with an entire rebuild on it. All gaskets, valave seats, pistions, head check, crank and cams inspection, and block inspection. Finally have it broken in and want some more low end power I didn't do my research before buying this because it was too good of a deal to pass up and had to make the decision on the spot. Howwweeevverr..absolutely horrific spike for output. I was wondering if you had any recommendations for power upgrades. I cannot find much on forced induction for this engine. I would perfer supercharging due to the low hp at low rpms depending on cost. MAX im willing to put into the engine now is 6k. Any companys you recommend or know of. Ive only found one by boosted tech for the 2007. If forced induction isn't an option on this truck any known good tuners for the 4.7? I see a bigger intake and a true cold air intake would help (obviously), going to be doing an exhaust on it in the near future thinking a 3 inch to flowmaster super 44. Im not looking for anything insane like 500hp just want to not get beat by subaru outbacks anymore. If it's not worth the time I'll just sell this and go to a F150 with a 5.0. Just wanted a 3rd gen truck to build though. Please get back to me and thank you for your time.
-Alex
 
#32 ·
I'm also thinking of updating my 4.7 if I get the 56 C-series pickup I made an offer on as a cab/box to mount on my 2001 Dakota. If that happens I plan to fully update the 4.7, get it fresh, and add the updates above for more power. I'd also match it to a 65RFE tranny (with the harness and PCM). The 65RFE is used in the RAM 1500 with the 4.7, but I wonder if there is an issue identifying the tranny with a different engine?
 
#37 ·
The 65RFE is just a rebranded 545RFE. Its literally the same transmission. They updated the programing and added a manual shift mode is all.


this is a great article about the trans.
 
#34 ·
How about using a remanufactured 4.7HO short black with your reworked heads, and a 2008 intake manifold and throttle body. The remanufactured blocks address the oil and cooling issues possible with the earlier model 4.7, and updated heads should address the rest. You could get horsepower close to 300 at the crank and have an engine ready to go 200,000 miles.

Not cheap at all. But you get a warranty on the engine, and most all issues possible with the 4.7 addressed, and it bolts with into your chassis. You may have to change out the tone wheel to make sure you get the right info to your engine PCM.
 
#38 ·
Right about the 545 or 65RFE. The option to manually shift the 65RFE is a real consideration to me for winter driving. In my current Dak the manual 5-speed gives me the option to select a higher gear for take off in slippery conditions. Also, Daks stop better on winter driving when the clutch is pushed in. I had older Daks with auto trannys and for slippery conditions I'd shift to neutral. I plan to have a floor shift for the auto trany, so the option to manually shift is a good one.
 
#40 ·
#41 ·
American Shifter markets a floor mounted shifter system for the 545RFE, that they advertise as capable to provide manual shifting capability: Side Shift Transmission Shifter Kit with 6” Chrome Arm for Chrysler 45RFE « American Shifter

Although it shows as for the 45RFE, it also adapts to the 545RFE. Using this shifter lets the driver select fully automatic, with an option to manually shift.
Nice piece but that's still only going to get you PRND21 because its a physical shifter not the electronic controlled manual shift that the 65RFE has programed into it. hooking that part up to it is the challenge.
 
#42 ·
Right. For me, the option of manual shifting the lower gears is the goal. Driving a 2WD pickup in the winter is easier when I can easily choose a higher gear (2nd and 3rd) to get moving versus just trying to limp along in 1st gear.

If I come across a 65RFE trans I'll consider what i can do with that versus the American Shifter option on a 545RFE.
 
#43 ·
Right. For me, the option of manual shifting the lower gears is the goal. Driving a 2WD pickup in the winter is easier when I can easily choose a higher gear (2nd and 3rd) to get moving versus just trying to limp along in 1st gear.

If I come across a 65RFE trans I'll consider what i can do with that versus the American Shifter option on a 545RFE.
Funny thing with automatics. You put it in 2nd and it still uses 1st gear starting out. They don't lock in to that gear. They only limit that as the highest gear it will use.
 
#44 ·
Hmm.. I had a 2010 Ford Fusion with the V6/6-spd automatic, and I could manually shift it to start out in 2nd gear for slippery conditions. Same for the 2006 Ford Explorer I had with the V8/6-spd automatic. Now I have a 2018 Ford Escape with the L4/6-spd automatic and I can manually shift into 2nd and short shift to 3rd for easier take off in slippery conditions. All these Fords had a manual shift position, or manual shift "switch". I assumed a manual shift option on the 545RFE trans would operate the same way,
 
#45 ·
Thats because ford actually programed them to do so. Mopar in their infinite wisdom decided to save your transmission rather than let you smoke out your clutch packs.
In 2012 when they revamped the 545RFE to the 65RFE you could start it out in 2nd, but if you gave it to much throttle or had a load on it, it would still shift down to 1st. Even the SRT8 chargers I've driven would shift down if given too much throttle. After you hit 25 mph it wont shift out of that gear no matter what until you tell it to but from a dead stop they protect the user from damaging something.
 
#49 ·
In my earlier post I was referring to the 545RFE or 65RFE, neither of which will connect to the 5.2 Magnum that I have decided to install in my 56 pickup build. The ZF 8HP-70 is a much better trans, and it will connect to the old Mopar V8s.

I confirmed with Russel at Sound German in WA state. The 8HP-70 trans will bolt up to a LA 318, 5.2 Magnum, 340 or 360 Magnum, and it will work independent of the engine. He also confirmed the shift control can be done with a floor shifter, like from a Ram, Charger or Challenger. Can even use a dial shift control on the dash or console. If you want to do manual shifting (like with switches on the steering wheel) you need a 8-spd from a Charger or Challenger. If you have one from a Ram, the trans controller must be re-flashed to operate the manual shift functions independent of the console or dash shift control.

The old dashboard pushbutton control could even be adapted with micro switches added into the back of the early 60s dash mounted shifter.
 
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