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So I have been dealing with hard to start issue for a while ( mainly just did not take time to thoroughly diag) I have 2001 dodge durango 4.7 w/200k miles.

I had done some research on this forum and the web and find that there have numerous issues with this problem, but symptoms where different in most cases.

My issue was that it was Hard to start whether it was hot or cold driven or not driven when it did fire up there would be cloud of light smoke and fuel smell out the exhaust , I would have to crank the starter for about 20 sec ( sometimes less) cycling the key or waiting about 20 sec before turning the motor over had no bearing, but after you drove it then turned it off and it was with in 10 min interval it would start right up, but after about 10 min it would revert back.

Went through the various diag's the third thing being fuel pump tested fuel pressure a constant 49 to 51lbs ( had 2 different fuel pressure testers ) this was with key on , but after letting it sit for about 5 min the pressure seemed to drop about 5psi so like most was thinking fuel pump/check valve in the tank but before I forked out 400 for pump assembly I figured I would take a few more tests , so I took a pair of vise grips and placed a rag the fuel line that attaches to the fuel rails and carefully crimped it shut ( I already had key on before doing this and gauge was reading 50psi ) let it sit for about 5 min came back and sure enough pressure dropped again about 5 psi, after seeing the pressure drop after crimping the line off , I either had an issue with the rails or injectors.

Took the breather assembly off , disconnected and removed coil packs and removed the four bolts holding the rails to the intake, took my time and carefully lifted rail w/ injectors attached to it up and placed the assembly on the intake to where I could see the bottoms of the injectors, turned the key on and sure enough within seconds number 8 and number 3 injector's looked to be bleeding down as the intake was wet with fuel underneath both those injectors, left the key on for about another minute while watching and I could actually see the injectors bleeding down. so replaced both injectors no more issue and my mileage has jumped from 15.5 to 17 city and almost 21 on highway.

Bill
 

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We are having the same symptoms as you with our 2002 Dakota Quad Cab. Thanks for the information. I too was looking to replace the fuel pump but will inspect the injectors first.
 

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So I have been dealing with hard to start issue for a while ( mainly just did not take time to thoroughly diag) I have 2001 dodge durango 4.7 w/200k miles.

I had done some research on this forum and the web and find that there have numerous issues with this problem, but symptoms where different in most cases.

My issue was that it was Hard to start whether it was hot or cold driven or not driven when it did fire up there would be cloud of light smoke and fuel smell out the exhaust , I would have to crank the starter for about 20 sec ( sometimes less) cycling the key or waiting about 20 sec before turning the motor over had no bearing, but after you drove it then turned it off and it was with in 10 min interval it would start right up, but after about 10 min it would revert back.

Went through the various diag's the third thing being fuel pump tested fuel pressure a constant 49 to 51lbs ( had 2 different fuel pressure testers ) this was with key on , but after letting it sit for about 5 min the pressure seemed to drop about 5psi so like most was thinking fuel pump/check valve in the tank but before I forked out 400 for pump assembly I figured I would take a few more tests , so I took a pair of vise grips and placed a rag the fuel line that attaches to the fuel rails and carefully crimped it shut ( I already had key on before doing this and gauge was reading 50psi ) let it sit for about 5 min came back and sure enough pressure dropped again about 5 psi, after seeing the pressure drop after crimping the line off , I either had an issue with the rails or injectors.

Took the breather assembly off , disconnected and removed coil packs and removed the four bolts holding the rails to the intake, took my time and carefully lifted rail w/ injectors attached to it up and placed the assembly on the intake to where I could see the bottoms of the injectors, turned the key on and sure enough within seconds number 8 and number 3 injector's looked to be bleeding down as the intake was wet with fuel underneath both those injectors, left the key on for about another minute while watching and I could actually see the injectors bleeding down. so replaced both injectors no more issue and my mileage has jumped from 15.5 to 17 city and almost 21 on highway.

Bill
Bill,
This sounds like my issue. My fuel pump was replaced so I know that isnt the issue. A couple of questions,

Disconnected and removed the coil packs - does that mean the coils over the spark plugs? Why?
When you say the injectors were bleeding down, does that mean that you saw gas inside of them. Are you not supposed to find gas in good injectors?
I dont know much about the fuel system but if I could troubleshoot the injectors fairly easily, I woule love too.
Let me know,
Thanks!
 

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Bill,

Good to hear you got it resolved. When I had my issue with hard starting (only after it sat for a bit), the dealership (it was still under warranty at the time) just kept throwing parts at it. It as great for me, because I got a new fuel pump, intake gaskets and injectors before one of the techs found a bad fuel rail.
 

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The Anti-RUB
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I'm glad to see you actually diagnosed the problem and didn't just throw parts at the problem. I always shake my head in disappointment when I see people wasting their time and money by throwing parts at a problem. Its almost always faster and cheaper to fix it right the first time rather then guessing and throwing parts at the problem. Just sayin'...

Fuel pressure leaks like this can occur anywhere between the fuel pump and the injectors. In my experience, the causes is usually as simple (and as inexpensive) as a bad fuel injector, or bad fuel injector seal/o-ring, or a leaking fuel line. Its rarely a bad fuel pump or check valve. It just takes a little more time to diagnose the problem, but its ultimately worth it.
 

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I have this issue sometimes but not every morning it get started. Most of the time it starts up right away but races up to almost 2000 RPM and then it settles down. Still trying to get use to this engine. Mine just got rebuilt cuz of a stuck valve. Had to have both heads removed. My machanic told me the hard starting might be the "engine crank sensor" . Oh well nobodys perfect .

rimfire,22
 

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Bill,

Good to hear you got it resolved. When I had my issue with hard starting (only after it sat for a bit), the dealership (it was still under warranty at the time) just kept throwing parts at it. It as great for me, because I got a new fuel pump, intake gaskets and injectors before one of the techs found a bad fuel rail.
So out of curiosity, what can go bad with a fuel rail other than leaking??
 

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I'm glad to see you actually diagnosed the problem and didn't just throw parts at the problem. I always shake my head in disappointment when I see people wasting their time and money by throwing parts at a problem. Its almost always faster and cheaper to fix it right the first time rather then guessing and throwing parts at the problem. Just sayin'...

Fuel pressure leaks like this can occur anywhere between the fuel pump and the injectors. In my experience, the causes is usually as simple (and as inexpensive) as a bad fuel injector, or bad fuel injector seal/o-ring, or a leaking fuel line. Its rarely a bad fuel pump or check valve. It just takes a little more time to diagnose the problem, but its ultimately worth it.
I am thinking of buying new Orings and seals for my injectors as I have hard start issues and I know it's not my new fuel pump. Is there a step by step method of checking for injector issues? Or is Bill's way the best? If i unhook the injectors as Bill did and turn on the key, how will I know if the injector is bad? Because fuel will be leaking out around it? I would like to address this weekend, can someone give me some tips? I do not have a pressure guage...
P.S - I am also getting a new gas cap, as I am getting a P0442 code...
 

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The Anti-RUB
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I am thinking of buying new Orings and seals for my injectors as I have hard start issues and I know it's not my new fuel pump.
If you learn anything from this thread it should be to diagnose a problem instead of guessing throwing parts at a problem.

Rent a fuel pressure gauge from your local auto parts store and run a proper test to find your leak (if you do in fact have a leak). But before doing anything make sure your Battery is good. Take it to a local auto parts store and have it load-tested. If it doesn't have enough juice, it won't start your truck very well/easy.

Good luck...
 

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Pet,
I agree with you but unfortunately, there is nowhere locally that i can rent a pressure guage. I also got discouraged with Rockauto yesterday when trying to order parts. I had a $40.00 order of various parts but they wanted to charge me $100.00 for shipping because it was coming from 3 different locations. There has got to be a solution to that.
I am getting discouraged.
 

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Great post with great results.... glad you where able to figure out your issue... I never thought about pulling the rail and then turning the key to allow fuel pressure to build... Im going to start using that as good advice.

SPEED SAFE, NICK
 

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Pet,
I agree with you but unfortunately, there is nowhere locally that i can rent a pressure guage.
Blame Canada... :) Sorry couldn't resist... Seriously though, I don't know about up in Canada, but down here most chain auto parts stores (e.g. PebBoys, Kragen/O'Rielly, AutoZone, Advance etc) will rent tools. Call around to your local shops and see if they do. Doesn't hurt to ask.


I also got discouraged with Rockauto yesterday when trying to order parts. I had a $40.00 order of various parts but they wanted to charge me $100.00 for shipping because it was coming from 3 different locations. There has got to be a solution to that.
After selecting the first item, other listings will appear with a little line drawing of a truck next to it. That truck indicates that they will ship from the same location as your already selected item(s). Try to order those that are from the same place in order to save on shipping. Good luck...
 

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The thing is a pressure tester would not have identified which injectors where bad... but only if there is a bleed down issue...

I think his trick works great and I know I will use it in the future... and I have a fuel pressure gauge.

I like the fact that you can see which ones are leaking almost instantly.

SPEED SAFE, NICK
 

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Great post with great results.... glad you where able to figure out your issue... I never thought about pulling the rail and then turning the key to allow fuel pressure to build... Im going to start using that as good advice.
I'd be wary of doing this. You'll spew gas everywhere and could potentially cause a fire. Not to mention the mess it will cause, unless i'm missing something in Durango Bill's description).
 

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I'd be wary of doing this. You'll spew gas everywhere and could potentially cause a fire. Not to mention the mess it will cause, unless i'm missing something in Durango Bill's description).
I dont think this is such a risky trick to use in order to isolate which injector is bad... they dont piss out fuel in such a way that it would cause a fire... If your fuel system is working correctly you should not have any fuel comming out... So If you do some how manage to start a fire... then you would have clearly found your problem...:banana2:

It is a good point but only a fool would do this over a hot engine so Ill be sure to use it when the engine is cold, I dont smoke so I dont have to worry about a sig lighting a fire...

SPEED SAFE, NICK
 

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Ahh... I see how durango bill's trick works... He's not turning the truck on. He's only putting the key in the On position which just primes the fuel pump without starting the motor. If the injector is leaking, the pressure in the line will force gas through the injector.

However there is one problem. You still have the potential for getting gas all over your motor causing a safety/health issue. If an injector is really bad, you'll get a lot of gas spewing out due to the pressure created by the fuel pump. I think a better, simpler and less messy solution would be to not pull the fuel rail and injectors. But instead pull the spark plugs. After turning the key into the On position, shine a flash light into each of the spark plug wholes and see if any of the piston tops are wet. If any are, then that injector is leaking... :banana2:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
There is always a potential risk/safety issues when working on a vehicle, I assumed most people would heed some type of caution when dealing with anything fuel related. If the injector is bad it should only drip i.e. leaky water faucet If the fuel is actually spewing gas out of the injector I would be looking for the internal parts of the injector somewhere ..lol

pulling plugs and attempting to view the pistons through spark plug tube w/flashlight ..you eyes are a 100 times better than mine looking down that tube into the cylinder is like looking into a black hole ...Im not even going too mention trying to get to the rear cylinders for a look.

All joking aside Petrock does make a good point, you are dealing with fuel and can be very dangerous If precautions are not taken.
 

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Ahh... I see how durango bill's trick works... He's not turning the truck on. He's only putting the key in the On position which just primes the fuel pump without starting the motor. If the injector is leaking, the pressure in the line will force gas through the injector.

However there is one problem. You still have the potential for getting gas all over your motor causing a safety/health issue. If an injector is really bad, you'll get a lot of gas spewing out due to the pressure created by the fuel pump. I think a better, simpler and less messy solution would be to not pull the fuel rail and injectors. But instead pull the spark plugs. After turning the key into the On position, shine a flash light into each of the spark plug wholes and see if any of the piston tops are wet. If any are, then that injector is leaking... :banana2:
It won't be that much fuel. When you turn the key ON, if there's no crank signal, the fuel pump shuts off after 2 seconds. So after it pumps up then shuts off, you'll only have residual pressure bleeding down, not enough to cause a flood.
 
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