[Hendogg]

Hi all.. I keep seeing all of these Hemi swaps with the Dakota's and Durango's that went very well for other people.. And I see that a few Companies that make the motor mounts and oil pan and pickup tube for the 2wds but not for the 4wd.. I just wish they made the motor mounts for the 4x4's as well..

I want to do this on my 04 crew cab 4x4 Dakota with the 4.7.. But I don't ever see any one use the BBK 80mm or 85mm Cable Driven Hemi 5.7L/6.1L/6.4L Performance Throttle Body 1791 that uses the Dakota and Durango TPS & IAC.. Witch should make the wiring a lot easier.. And with a cost of only $349 for the 80mm and $355 for the 85mm seems like a pretty good price. Cause then you could use the 4.7 Computer instead of having to buy a 5.7 computer as well.. And Just make the 4.7 wiring harness longer for the plugs that wasn't long enough. And just Change out the others that would not work..

I picked up an 04 Hemi with every thing as a Core motor Just cause I got it Cheap really cheap 200 bucks.. It has a hole in the block But I got it from the breather to the oil pan with all of the Engine and transmission and transfer case harnesses..

The motor that I am looking at is in a 04 Durango 4x4 that has a over heating problem but it is only 800 bucks.. There is no water in the oil or oil in the water and it only has like a 105K miles on it. And runs like a top other than that.. One of the Questions that I have is will I run into any problems with the Durango 5.7 rather than the 5.7 out of the Trucks? And by using the BBK one I can keep the Cruise control the way it is so post to work on the Dakota..

Buy going this route will I run into other problems by using the BBK 85mm Cable Driven Throttle Body? And by using a 04 Durango 5.7 Hemi? I am sorry about the long post.. I just have put a lot of time and money in the 4.7 and still have problems.. And one other thing What all Changed on the 09 and up 5.7 hemis? I do know where one of them is for 1700 that is low miles..

 

[2004 Dakota]

I also looked at going this route. Chose not to do it this way because the 04 Hemi (Ram 1500 truck motor) has knock sensors and the 04 4.7 that was in my Dakota, did not. If my 4.7 would of had knock sensors, I probably would not have needed to replace the engine in it.

http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168360


The tuning in the 4.7 PCM, used with the 4.7 harness, will also be off (VE tables and spark advance, among others). This may or could be tuned to more accurately reflect the parameters needed by the Hemi, but I would not do it due to the lack of knock sensors in the 4.7 PCM set-up.

Using the 4.7 harness with the 5.7 PCM is out of the question. Several different pin outs. It will plug in (both NCG computers (4-plug)), but the Hemi PCM is looking for signals on different pins than the 4.7 PCM does.

Recommend finding an 04/05 Ram 1500 donor. Donor does not have to be 4WD since transfer case controller is totally separated in the 04 Dakota harness.

 

[Primus]

You will have to contact 69rrbruce on here for the 4x4 oil pan. He modifies the HEMI oil pan for the 4x4's, also making the motor mounts for the Dakota/Durango HEMI swap.
You do not have to use the 5.7 PCM to run it, the only reason you will need one is if you got one of the motors with the MDS system and neither of the HEMI's you have have the MDS system. The MDS system became standard across Chrysler's HEMI's for cars and trucks after the 2004 model year, after the then new Grand Cherokee had it and then the Chrysler 300/Dodge Charger debuted with the MDS HEMI's. In 2008, Chrysler added the Cam-in-cam variable valve timing system in the 300/Charger first, then when the 2009 Ram was unveiled. After 2008, you will have to run the 5.7 PCM in order to run the MDS and VVT systems.
You have a good point about the BBK TB's for the HEMI's being cable driven, but most just live with the throttle-by-wire system. Plus, the dead spot on tip in can be eliminated by a in-line module for the electronic TB actuator.
Hotwire Auto does modify the Dakota-Durango harness for the HEMI swap but you have to send in the harness for them to modify, so plan on having a spare vehicle ready for when you do this swap.

 

[Hendogg]

Well I was planing on just using the 4.7 harnesses and the 4.7 PCM. As all I have read with a lot of the swaps that it will run it and they do pretty good.. But I don't know 1st hand.. LoL I know that I you use the MDS 5.7 in a non MDS 5.7 you just don't hook them up and it will run just fine..

What does the 5.7 knock sensors do really? I know what they should do.. And if you just didn't hook them up it should run just fine.. Cause if the motor ever started to knock you would here it wouldn't you..

I was planing on doing my own motor mounts and oil pan an pickup tub.. I've fabed stuff before on ATV's an big mud trucks.. It don't look that had.. But IDK..

Thanks
For the quick Replies.. Just hope I can offer help like that in the Future.. Well I guess I could if you needed any info on an ATV or motorcycle..

 

[Hendogg]

Hay thanks guys.. I will keep 69rrbruce in mind if I end up needing or just Sourcing the parts out..

And one other thing about the 2009 5.7 truck Hemi's can you Chang out the VVT system and just use the old parts from the 03-08 5.7 motors? And will the 03-08 intake and Exhaust manifolds bolt to the 09 heads?

And thanks again for the quick Response..

 

[69rrbruce]

I don't provide the oil pans or motor mounts, that would be Donshoot67.
I wouldn't use a PCM that doesn't use knock sensors, I would just use the 5.7 PCM and adjust the dakota wiring per the Hemi pin-outs, but that's just me.

 

[2004 Dakota]

"Well I was planing on just using the 4.7 harnesses and the 4.7 PCM. As all I have read with a lot of the swaps that it will run it and they do pretty good.. But I don't know 1st hand.. LoL I know that I you use the MDS 5.7 in a non MDS 5.7 you just don't hook them up and it will run just fine..

What does the 5.7 knock sensors do really? I know what they should do.. And if you just didn't hook them up it should run just fine.. Cause if the motor ever started to knock you would here it wouldn't you.."

Sounds like you got it all figured out. Good luck!

 

[Hendogg]

Sounds like you got it all figured out. Good luck!

I don't have it all figured out.. That's why I asked what I asked.. With the 5.7 PCM can you still run the BBK Cable driven throttlebody with that PCM with out a hole lot of Tuning?? The only Reason that I have asked the Questions that I have is cause I really don't want to have to do wiring in the cab to do the fly by wire.. That sounds like a pain the the butt.. I would rather just use a Cable driven throttle body. That way the foot feed will work and the Cruise will still work with out having to do other in cab wiring.. And I don't really want to go the way with the cable to TPS box under the battery box cause they are all most as pricey as the BBK one.. And what I have read do go out Frequently..

I just Know a MDS motor can be used in a non MDS truck.. We put a 07 5.7 in my buddy's 04 dodge ram and it has been runing fine for the last 4 yrs with no problems.. So I know that's not a problem..

On that 85mm Throttle body will I Notice a difference to the Stock size???

Thanks
Ray

 

[Hendogg]

Thanks For the info.. 69rrbruce.. If I run into any problems with the pan and stuff I will send Donshoot67 a message about getting him to make them for me.. I really Appreciate it..

 

[69rrbruce]

No problem.....The drive-by-wire wiring isn't that bad, it's like 4 wires! I doubt the 85mm TB will do anything for a stock engine, save your cash.

 

[Hemi-fi]

When I did the install on the drive by wire pedal a couple of weeks ago it was fairly easy, but you do have to have an imagination when building the pedal bracket, I just measured the stock pedal down and up position and built the bracket off the measurements.

 

[Hendogg]

Ok thanks.. Well how do you keep the Cruise Control with the drive by wire? To where it still looks factory up on the dakota steering wheel? When I get done with this build I am wanting it to look factory and to work like it is so post to. I was planing on doing a few mods to it. Like the 6.1 cam and 06+ coil packs. I keep looking at the 06 and up 5.7's just cause there ain't as meany core motors.. The site that I use to order used parts. There are about 25-35 core motors with holes in the blocks. As to only 1 or 2 of the 06 up motors..

 

[Hendogg]

Do the 03-05's just have bad rods in them? I've seen like 10 that broke a rod off the crank that didn't have a spun bearing. I have one that came out of an 04 that the 2 front rods are broke and went throw the block. And both bearings and crank still look new. The truck only had 114K miles on it.

 

[Primus]

More than likely, they were not maintained and some were probably being driven hard all the time, so that might be one of the reasons why.

 

[Hendogg]

Just seems like an Awful big number of core motors with holes in the blocks on the salvage yard site that I use to order parts on for the 03-05.. Where the 06's and up there ain't none.. Just some burnt cores on there.. Thanks..

 

[Hemi-fi]

Just get the 06-08 Hemi, supposetly there was a bunch of improvements made to the engine.

 

[Hendogg]

I wonder what all they Improved on the 06 and up Hemi's? I did pick up a Complete core the other day just for the Wiring harness and coil packs and everything else for a good buy at 200 bucks.. It was Complete from the air breather to the oil pan. It came out of an 04.. It has the Engine and transmission and transfer case harness for it.. I think it was a good buy..

 

[Hendogg]

The block is junk. Has a hole in it. But the heads ain't hurt or anything else.. Even the crank is good.. I guess it lost a piston pin cause one of them are gone..

I would post some pics of it but don't know how to add them..

 

[Hendogg]

If I did this right here is a pic..

 

[Hendogg]

Here is anther one..