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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
yah it'll be a while...but in the end it should be a real useful and real capable machine :)

so some update(s): Just got a fresh set of Black rock 15x8 wheels (no not 16s - went to 15's for extra 'tire' and the 15s fit perfect, plus also discovered the factory 15" aluminum wheels and factory 15" steels also fit my chassis) and a set of 33x12.5R15 KM2s - quite the difference! Going wheeling this weekend, will be welding on rock sliders and installing a beefy steel rear diff cover from R/T.

I want to get an entire spare rear drive shaft and have a question: can someone tell me what other Dodge Dakota or Durango chassis' share an identical rear drive shaft to my '02 QC 5.9/auto truck? I might go hit the pick n pull before Saturday....
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 · (Edited)
so Oxx got him some recent upgrades - and yes, we've officially decided to name the truck after my very first truck, a 1987 Ramcharger 4x4 that I named 'Blu Oxx' (and he prefers to go by "Oxx" ;) ) - long may he live!! 8)

first, replaced the factory 16" aluminum wheels with steel Black Rock 15x8 wheels, and some 33x12.5 BFG KM2s. Then this past week I took a age from Bud's portfolio and welded up some HD rock sliders, and installed an RT rear diff cover. With those done we took Oxx to Spring Creek and had a total blast (and the sliders got a real workout!). I had one winch pull on the gatekeeper - I simply decided not to even try - no where near the ground clearance ;D

(Next up: front rock bumper and winch)

PS: not sure why the pics are still showing - I only pay the $30/yr for the capacity - I guess that's enough...? ('course now that I've said that all the pics will vanish tomorrow... :p )













 

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Seriously jealous of the terrain y'all have out in your neck if the country. I love Texas, but I wish we had more to offer on the off-road spectrum of things. Sounds like the truck is holding it own, I'm liking the mods.
 

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Nice build. I enjoy reading the upgrades. I just put some of those black rock wheels in 17" flavor on mine. Be interested with what you come up with on the front bumper. I need to fab up a front bumper to get some room for a bigger intercooler.
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
thanks :) - I'd love to see pics of your intercooled setup! have a link?


Well nuts - I found the orange/black TCC ground wire, cut it, and while yes it did disable the TCC function it also apparantly puts the truck in freaking limp-ass mode - no 1st gear and no overdrive. I hate limp mode - why can't the system simply do what the owner wants and not go into a pre-programmed 'safety feature'.

So, either I re-program the TCC activation to occur at a higher speed (60 mph would be great), or I find a way to disable limp mode, or some other fully manual/electronic way to control TCC. I'd be totally fine with the TCC and overdrive activating simultaneously but not sure that's possible.

Anyway I re-connected the ground wire and all is back to normal...
 

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thanks :) - I'd love to see pics of your intercooled setup! have a link?


Well nuts - I found the orange/black TCC ground wire, cut it, and while yes it did disable the TCC function it also apparantly puts the truck in freaking limp-ass mode - no 1st gear and no overdrive. I hate limp mode - why can't the system simply do what the owner wants and not go into a pre-programmed 'safety feature'.

So, either I re-program the TCC activation to occur at a higher speed (60 mph would be great), or I find a way to disable limp mode, or some other fully manual/electronic way to control TCC. I'd be totally fine with the TCC and overdrive activating simultaneously but not sure that's possible.

Anyway I re-connected the ground wire and all is back to normal...
Right now its just grand national style sitting sideways as you can see in this post on tdiclub http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5271893&postcount=123

Sounds like you need to swap in a manual though I have no experience with offroad crawling an automatic might be more desirable. If I remember right I think some of the flash programmers allowed you to control the lockup in certain situations?
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
intercooler looks good - what year/engine is your truck, and I presume a supercharger, or turbo?

And yah yours is the second mention of a programmer I've come across today and I'm going to look into it tomorrow. We have an awesome speed shop in town and I'm going to ask them if they know any tricks regarding programmers or re-programming the computer (specifically the TCC lockup trigger speed) - these guys just might know of a way - I'll report back. Never really considered a programmer but it might just do the trick.
 

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intercooler looks good - what year/engine is your truck, and I presume a supercharger, or turbo?

And yah yours is the second mention of a programmer I've come across today and I'm going to look into it tomorrow. We have an awesome speed shop in town and I'm going to ask them if they know any tricks regarding programmers or re-programming the computer (specifically the TCC lockup trigger speed) - these guys just might know of a way - I'll report back. Never really considered a programmer but it might just do the trick.
truck is 2001 QC 5 speed 4x4. It had a 4.7 but pulled it for a 2002 TDi ALH diesel warmed over to about 190HP and 350ftlbs. Build thread here. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=465373

Maby HPtuners can manipulate that ECU you have? Its a 4 plug PCM correct? I know they caint do anything with the 3 plug 4.7 ones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 · (Edited)
yah I'm checking into the tuners - fortunately it isn't a big priority - more of a nagging nuisance really, but if there's a way...I'll find it.

So the last trail ride on Spring Creek did a good job if trying to rip off the front bumper...so I decided to go ahead and replace it with something a bit stronger, along with the appropriate 12k 'accessory'. Should have it wired up tomorrow, and ready for the next ride this weekend. Used 1-3/4 tubing for the main sections, and 1-1/2 and 1-1/4 for some of the others. Capped off the front end of the frame which made for an ideal spot to anchor the bumper - it isn't completely 'done' - still have some small stuff to do, but aught to work well. Friend of mine owns/operates a pro fab shop near me and he did the nice bends around the light buckets - I gotta git me a bender...


Aaaaaand I've really been thinking about...when the time comes...replacing the 360 with a 440...:finger2:











 

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That’s purty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Looks great and functional as the round tube would be more desirable with all the rock gardens your in.

Im looking at doing a flat plate bumper. I will mock up a on CAD (cardboard added design) then have a a buddy cut all the pieces so I can weld them up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 · (Edited)
...so we have a night run coming up next weekend...and I like seeing where I am and where I'm going, so I got some LEDs installed this weekend, and the two side lights are on magnets and have lots of extra wire so I can use them for maintenance or anything else where I need some 'daylight' - should be fun! :)

 
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Discussion Starter · #73 ·
...among other fun thoughts, one of the things I'm also trying to research is what the specific triggers are for activating 'limp mode'. If I drop a 440, 727, Atlas between the fenders, with crank and cam signals correctly calibrated so the truck recognizes/uses them and the dash functions properly...assuming of course that the engine has its own stand-alone management system (Megasquirt, etc) and the transmission isn't connected to anything except the manual shifter...I don't think there is any way the PCM will affect the driveline even if it thinks the truck is in limp mode.

If I go out to the truck now and disconnect all of the OE chassis electronics for the 46RE transmission and for the 360 engine and such, I'm pretty sure the PCM will go into limp mode...but if neither the engine (440) nor the transmission (727) are 'commanded' by the PCM then whether or not the chassis is in limp mode would be irrelevant. Thinking outside the box...I don't know what else could be affected by limp mode - HVAC electronics, would the cruise still function?? It's almost impossible to predict and impossible to test in the current configuration. Ahhhh the fun of owning a race car....

Even though it's years away from a decision, at this point I'm leaning towards the "440/727" plan vs cranking up the 360/46re, for two reasons - mountains of torque, and 'less' electronics - a process I call "de-computerizing". If it were up to me I'd completely delete the PCM from the whole truck and wire it up old-school...but the PCM isn't likely to crap out any time soon so I'll leave it in there, but I do want the driveline to be under 'my' control, and I have a better opportunity to achieve that by eliminating the PCM from the equation and using my own stand-alone controls...and if I'm going to go there I'll do the 440 along the way.

Getting the Atlas to bolt up should be pretty simple too. An Atlas won't bolt up to a 70's era big block 4wd 727 - those all had 203's mated to them and the Atlas doesn't come in the odd ball 203 bolt pattern. However the small block 4wd 727s in the 80's had the 208 behind them with the common 6-round pattern, so all I gotta do is take one each transmissions apart and swap the small block shaft and tail over to the big block unit, and I can bolt up the Atlas ca-lean. Simple :eek:nethumb:

As far as engine rpms, with the 727, 4.56 gears, and 40s, the 440 will hum along at 2300 rpm doing 60, 2700 rpm doing 70, and 3000 rpm doing 80, and that sounds pretty dern'd good to me :eek:nethumb:

- Sam
 

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I read this as you need confirmation that it will all work out…I think you'll be fine. I've taken the "decomputerized" route and have no qualms about it. The 440/727 won't care at all about what the PCM thinks, and I would still suggest swapping out the factory gauges with all Autometers. The HVAC would be the only place left to address. I'm still not sure why it would need a cam and/or crank signal to work, but if I had such a device, I'd consider going retro and using an older vacuum operated HVAC instead.

Ed

P.S. I have photos of my dash full of Autometers, but I haven't found a replacement for photo bucket yet. If you want, I can send you a pic so you can have a look-see and maybe get some inspiration….
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 · (Edited)
it's not that I need a guarantee that it'll work - just between what you and Motohead1 (sorry man I don't know your name ;) ) have explained I'm certain it will all work, and I won't hold anyone hostage to thoughts and ideas either proven or theoretical, but I do enjoy discussing 'how' things work down to the minute details :) . But you know me Ed - I post up my 'thoughts'...which are mostly rhetorical - meaning I like to simply discuss the 'possibilities' - generate thoughts way outside the box - in my world ..."there is no box" ;).

And like you've mentioned I'm also certain that by going with aftermarket gauges I'll get even further away from the PCM (in general an idea I like a lot), and one of the things that bugs me to no end is having stuff on the dash etc that are unnecessary...like the gear selector display - which I won't need with the shifter on the floor...so I'll want to 'delete' the column shifter lever too - so yeah there may indeed be enough benefit...based on my personal likes/wants...to fabricating a dash instead of trying to make the factory one work normally.

And yah I've also thought about ways to power the dash/HVAC without a cam signal - just haven't got there yet, or of course I could also probably implement manual controls for the vent doors.... LOTS to ponder between now and 'then' :)

In the end...having a "Big Block Dakota" is just too good an idea to pass up :devil:
 

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it's not that I need a guarantee that it'll work
….. and I won't hold anyone hostage to thoughts and ideas either proven or theoretical,
Great, cause I can't guarantee that I'm in my right frame of mind


but I do enjoy discussing 'how' things work down to the minute details :) . But you know me Ed - I post up my 'thoughts'...which are mostly rhetorical - meaning I like to simply discuss the 'possibilities' - generate thoughts way outside the box - in my world ..."there is no box" ;).
Remember that you also have the advantage of experience. Theres no doubt that what you think and discuss today will evolve into another awesome ride, tomorrow.

As for Blue Oxx #2 , I think you're heading down the right path. The 440 is a great powerhouse with oodles of possibilities and options. The 727 is going to work fantastically for that application. I can only imagine what an Atlas will do with a 440 feeding torque to it, and it multiplying it by 4X. And axles. Tons at both ends, both probably locked and loaded. the only part of this story is what kind of suspension you gonna do?

In a way Oxx has a lot in common with Gator. Gator doesn't have a PCM sitting on the inner fender. Theres no computers or modules anywhere left in it. While you're planning on a 727 which has no computers to control it, I decomputerized the 46RE I'm using. The only electronics I'm using are the ones I can use. For example, the speed sensor in the rear axle for the speedo.

My own way of seeing it was to deconstruct the truck in my head and reassemble it using parts that didn't require a computer to operate. The one exception was of course the transmission. That took awhile to wrap my brain around because I looked at my needs and tried to find the best fit. In my case, I needed an automatic (bad knees) and I needed over drive (It's a Cummins and I plan to dd it including on the highway) A lock up toque converter wasn't high on the list, but lu comes with od transmissions. My ideal choice would had been a 47RH, but those are a lot like hen's teeth. The next best option was the 47RE. When I found one, my next thought was how to use it without a computer. And the solution was, to have a manual valve body installed in it. The MVB over rides the need of the electronically controlled governor because you're going to shift it yourself and od & lu can be controlled with toggle switches. Once I was comfortable with that, I went with it.

I did consider keeping my old Cummins specific 727. The 727 can be built to survive plenty of torque at a cheaper cost. But I felt that lack of od would be the big compromise here. The only other possible transmission options were to find a manual, like a NV4500 and take a lot more Tylenol or use another automatic, like an Allison out of a GM 4x4. (with a stand alone controller)

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
it's funny - but just yesterday I was talking to a good friend about his upcoming project - an early Jeep Gladiator that he's getting ready to build, and he's going back and forth about engine choices - between a Mopar V-10 and a Jeep 401. The single biggest hesitation he has with the V10 is the electronics and the associated 46RE that probably has to go with it. The perk from the V10 is of course the power - lotsnlots of it, but the electrical cons may sway him to go with a warmed up 401 with EFI and a 727....but that's a whole other story and I don't wanna hijack my own thread... ;)


For Oxx's suspension - I really liked how well Bud's chassis handled and I'm very likely going to follow suit and go with good ole leafs - dirt simple and easy to maintain. I'm thinking the basic 48" Dodge fronts and probably the 56" or 63" rears. I want the front of the truck to be more stable and less flexy than the rear especially for the street driving. I've thought a lot about linking the front but I just don't want to. Plus personally I like how leafs 'feel' - they are very predictable, and I also think they hold the truck 'square' in off camber angles better than a linked setup does, and in my world that's a big deal.
 

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Can you hijack your own thread? Anyway, your friend has tons of options. Personally, I trend towards the decomputerized route because quite honestly, I'm not an electrical guru and in my terrain of choice, electrical components don't mix well with mud and deep water. I believe my one wire Cummins is ideal for this.
And I would probably do that with an old Gladiator (Especially if it's an M715) if I had one. -Tell him to find a 4BT.

So you're doing leafs front and rear? Its funny. I was thinking of going that direction, but after a conversation with the guy doing the axle swap, we agreed on using the coil set up the axle I used, came with. Even used the coils that came with the axle, and I'm glad I went that way. The coils were under a V10 which makes the front end pretty soft, but there isn't much up travel. Thats fine for me because I want a softer ride and I don't really need miles of wheel travel in the swamp (Unless you're jumping -and that I don't do) Didn't build a 4 link either, just went simple with a radius arm set up. Rear however is leafs, and I'm gonna have to add some type of traction bar to help plant the rear if I have to mash the throttle in the goo.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
in all honesty, the quickest way I'll get to 'tons and 40s will be if I leave the drveline as-is...at least for the time being. So, the first upgrade will be the suspension, axles, wheels/tires, and steering - I'll likely leave the engine/trans/t-case all as-is and run the big stuff for a while...and I may determine that the 360 may be 'enough', and if not well then I can crank up the driveline down the road. But I definitely need more lift and tires - I high-centered a LOT on the last trail I did - literally used the winch to drag the sliders over stuff - they're very shiny now!
 

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The question is, do you really want to go the quickest way or do you want the 440? Yes, keeping the 5.9 would be the most inexpensive way to build your ride, and you'll cut out a bunch of work that you were thinking of doing. And the 5.9 is probably enough engine, but is that what you want to do?

How do you like the power as it is now for your needs? Because if you're happy with the power, so long as you match the gears to the tire size, you'll have about the same basic performance when you mount up the 40s. Right now you got 33s and probably 3.55s. If you go to a 40, the equivalent would be 4.56 ratio and the truck should perform in a similar way. (except the massive increase in traction and ground clearance) So if you're happy with the power, then save the money and keep the engine.

To give you an entirely different point of view. I was actually thinking about just doing a solid axle swap on my Dakota. I was going to keep my 318, transmission and t-case, and I was thinking of going with a max of 35s. To that end, I bought a pair of Dana 44s out of a Wagoneer. I was going to use the front 44 and keep the rear axle. That plan was based on me keeping my Cummins-Ramcharger and eventually finishing that project later. But then my wife and I had an opportunity to buy land and we decided to build a new house. Since I was now going to be moving, I decided that I couldn't keep two projects and I had to get rid of one of them. I didn't want to get rid of either truck, so my compromise was to combine both projects into one and use the best of everything I had. The Ramcharger was in worse shape, and I just finished a cab swap with the Dakota, so the Dakota was selected as the project vehicle and the RC became the donor.

It was my decision to do everything all at once. That way, everything had to get done. My initial fear was that had I kept the 318 and did the axle swap first and the engine swap later, that I wouldn't be able to do the engine swap later due to money or some other issue that came up. My RC project stalled for over ten years and I was determined that this wouldn't happen with the Dak.

-And it's usually easier to design everything to work together, if you install it all together. Typically if you do an axle swap, then an engine swap later, chances are some of the parts you had to buy for the SAS, won't work with the new engine/drivetrain, which means you're spending money on parts you won't keep (and it's money you'll never get back)

So that was my line of thinking. I made sure everything was addressed early on, and everything came together smoothly….. And that worked for me. You still have options. You can't go wrong either way. A 440 will definitely make your Dak stand out in a crowd, but the 360 isn't a slouch either, and BTW, you could always stroke it if you need 440-like power…And you won't have to mess around with your dash, the HVAC, the PCM, harnesses and a ton of other details. And the 360 is lighter. Even if it falls short of 440 torque, it's pushing around a little less mass.

Ed
 
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