46RE to 727 swap questions - Dodge Durango Forum and Dodge Dakota Forums
Register Home Forum Extras Website Features Timeslips Calendar Auto Loans Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Transmissions Shift Kits, Transmissions, Torque Converters, Clutches

Dakota-Durango.com is the premier Dodge Dakota Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-25-2009, 01:37 AM
FIVELITEREATER FIVELITEREATER is offline
Pony Car Abuser
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Indiana
Vehicle: 1998 Dodge Dakota R/T
Posts: 47
Reputation: 11 FIVELITEREATER is just getting started
46RE to 727 swap questions

I want to swap out the 46RE in my 1998 CC R/T for a 727. What all needs to be done to make this work. The trans is out of the truck now. Does anyone have a link or someone I can contact? Thanks!


John
__________________
MODS: ATI PROCHARGER, 8LB PULLEY & INTERCOOLER, AEROMOTIVE BOOST REFERENCED EFMU & FUEL PUMP, EDELBROCK HEADERS, TRUE DUAL EXHAUST WITH X-PIPE, FLOWMASTER RACE MUFFS, MSD SUPER CONDUCTOR WIRES, HYPERTECH POWER PROGRAMMER, MP VALVE COVERS, POWER STOP ROTORS, MSD BOOST TIMING MASTER, STEWART WARNER FUEL PSI, BOOST AND A/F RATIO GUAGES, SHAKER HOOD-PROGLASS & `CUDA ROLLPAN-MBRP, MSD 6A, C4 IGNITION COIL, 180 T-STAT, LAKEWOOD TRACTION BARS, DEBADGED FOR THAT "STEALTH" LOOK- YEAH RIGHT!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 10-25-2009, 03:22 AM
EmwhiteR/T's Avatar
EmwhiteR/T EmwhiteR/T is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DFW, Texas
Vehicle: 03 Dakota R/T CC
Posts: 1,245
Reputation: 46 EmwhiteR/T must have done something right
There is a few guys on the dakota r/t forum that has done the swap. You will be throwing CEL's because the computer is looking for the tranny. SCT (at the moment) will not be able fix it from what I hear.

I'm not sure what all is involved in it.
__________________
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 10-25-2009, 03:39 AM
Adobedude Adobedude is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Corrales, New Mexico
Vehicle: 2001 Dakota R/T
Posts: 1,604
Reputation: 60 Adobedude has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIVELITEREATER View Post
I want to swap out the 46RE in my 1998 CC R/T for a 727. What all needs to be done to make this work. The trans is out of the truck now. Does anyone have a link or someone I can contact? Thanks!


John
Been there done that...

There's a lot invlolved, tranny support, drive shaft, bell housing notched for the crank sensor, flex plate needs to be re-drilled....PCM flashed, (but CEL will be permanent), Make sure the 727 has all the good parts so it won't blow up on you...Don't do it on a daily driver....Especially if you running 4.56 gears.

It's a mod you have to research to figure it out....Lot's of options on the tranny build. I went with a Cope Racing Transmission with a low band apply reverse manual valve body with a billet steel drum, a bolt in sprague, and a PTC 8" 4K stall converter.

SMR supposedly has a kit to make for an easy swap, but nothing worked...And I mean nothing. Don't bother with those guys.
__________________
11.36 @ 118.87 All Motor on Mars.
Street racing is gay.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 10-25-2009, 05:40 AM
Mach Mach is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Central Ky
Vehicle: '99 IB Dakota R/T
Posts: 668
Reputation: 22 Mach is just getting started
Man, sounds like a pain in the ass. Don't think it's worth it to me unless the truck made me money, lol.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 10-31-2009, 04:09 AM
varsis varsis is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Alberta
Vehicle: 97 dakota 5.9
Posts: 650
Reputation: 15 varsis is just getting started
Send a message via AIM to varsis Send a message via Skype™ to varsis
stick with the 46re and put in 47re internals instead
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 11-02-2009, 09:31 PM
yellowdak360 yellowdak360 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Detroit Area
Vehicle: 1999 Dakota R/T
Posts: 1,167
Reputation: 14 yellowdak360 is just getting started
just get it rebuilt as a 518 thats what i did. FYI a 518 is basically a 904 with Overdrive and a 904 is a similar to a 727 just not as tough to my knowledge...like Adobedude said no point to go 727 unless its a drag truck which is my dream! but mine is too daily driven and stock
__________________
99 R/T
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44229656@N05/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 11-02-2009, 10:05 PM
Adobedude Adobedude is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Corrales, New Mexico
Vehicle: 2001 Dakota R/T
Posts: 1,604
Reputation: 60 Adobedude has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach View Post
Man, sounds like a pain in the ass. Don't think it's worth it to me unless the truck made me money, lol.
Well....PIA it was, but the 727 and 4K stall knocked 5 tenths off my 60' time, and I was coming from a Martin Saine built 46RE with a 2800 stall.

Can't beat that with a stick.
__________________
11.36 @ 118.87 All Motor on Mars.
Street racing is gay.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 11-07-2009, 02:40 PM
Z88Z Z88Z is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Near Boston
Vehicle: 98 5.2 ZJ LTD/98 5.9 LTD
Posts: 130
Reputation: 10 Z88Z is just getting started
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmwhiteR/T View Post
....You will be throwing CEL's because the computer is looking for the tranny. SCT (at the moment) will not be able fix it from what I hear.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adobedude View Post
.....PCM flashed, (but CEL will be permanent)...
I'm currently doing the same swap in my 98 5.9 Grand Cherokee.

I've dealt succesfully with that CEL issue on another build of mine - ultra simple 20 minute fix laying around in jy's everywhere - use a 98 Ram/Dak 5.2 or 5.9 5spd PCM!!

Spent the usual time going back and forth on the auto trans delete thing talking with Hemifever and B&G etc - in the end I decided to save myself the headaches. Now when Sean writes the tune he doesn't have to deal with the auto trans/CEL stuff.

Other than that, right - there is the xmember mount and custom dshaft to consider.

Flexplate indexing and notching for CKPS - might or might not be advisable depending on what you're gonna run at for horsepower and rpms.

By re-drilling I assume you mean widening that one offset hole? Or are the bolts a different size too?

If it's cuz of the offset hole there's a few ways around that too.
Probably easiest to use a 5.2 flexplate - just make sure you get the 90 degree FP, some 5.2s did come with an offset hole.

or.... drill the weights off your 5.9 FP (I assume you have a 5.9 in there?) They look to be pinhole welds that should be pretty easy to drill out without getting into the FP itself but I haven't tried that route myself.

or.... get your converter built with the mounting tabs in the correct 90 degree or offset for your motor (and correct bolt size if it turns out to be different) Martin Saine can do this as needed...

Fourth - and my choice: Use the stock 727 flexplate.

Reason being - your 46RE, RH or 44RE was made with that CKPS relief in it - somewhat reinforced, cast/machined to minimize stress there.

That's why I asked about your HP and RPM use - per Martin, the relieving the FP offset hole/notching for CKPS thing is OK for a streeter, even with a bit of extra HP - but if you're going for big HP and higher RPMs it's much safer NOT to do either of those.

So what about the CKPS you might ask? - I'm going with a damper mounted trigger wheel for the stock sensor. That allows for the use of any FP - including an SFI approved unit.

One other thing you'll need - fitting adapters. The fittings into my 727 are 1/8NPT . Assuming your 46RE is like mine the trans fittings are 1/4NPT and it has bigger lines.

Hardware store should have adapters - if not try a hydraulic hose shop or possibly even one of the performance fitting makers like Russell, Aeroquip or Aeromotive among others. I just got the Russell catalog yesterday but haven't looked to see if they have 1/8 to 1/4 NPT adapters (kickin myself in the butt over that one - ordered lots of parts from Summit including Russell EFI adapter fittings - found out the day the package arrived that I need trans adapters too LOL)

NOTE: If you are having the 727 built they can enlarge the holes to 1/4NPT - but obviously that's not an option on a tranny that's already together.

Looks like the rest of it is a direct swap: shifter and TV arms and brackets look to be the same, speed sensor and NSS switch also.

now if someone can just post a pic of a Dodge 46RE or RH shifter bracket in my thread in the tranny section I'd be real happy!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 11-07-2009, 02:58 PM
rnaz rnaz is offline
Mods Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Vehicle: 1997 Dakota 4x4
Posts: 1,029
Reputation: 51 rnaz has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIVELITEREATER View Post
I want to swap out the 46RE in my 1998 CC R/T for a 727. What all needs to be done to make this work. The trans is out of the truck now. Does anyone have a link or someone I can contact? Thanks!


John
Send a PM to Max340 over on Racemagnum.com.

That guy is a fucking transmission genius. He will be able to answer that question for you for sure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 11-07-2009, 03:14 PM
Adobedude Adobedude is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Corrales, New Mexico
Vehicle: 2001 Dakota R/T
Posts: 1,604
Reputation: 60 Adobedude has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z88Z View Post
I'm currently doing the same swap in my 98 5.9 Grand Cherokee.

I've dealt succesfully with that CEL issue on another build of mine - ultra simple 20 minute fix laying around in jy's everywhere - use a 98 Ram/Dak 5.2 or 5.9 5spd PCM!!

Spent the usual time going back and forth on the auto trans delete thing talking with Hemifever and B&G etc - in the end I decided to save myself the headaches. Now when Sean writes the tune he doesn't have to deal with the auto trans/CEL stuff.

Other than that, right - there is the xmember mount and custom dshaft to consider.

Flexplate indexing and notching for CKPS - might or might not be advisable depending on what you're gonna run at for horsepower and rpms.

By re-drilling I assume you mean widening that one offset hole? Or are the bolts a different size too?

If it's cuz of the offset hole there's a few ways around that too.
Probably easiest to use a 5.2 flexplate - just make sure you get the 90 degree FP, some 5.2s did come with an offset hole.

or.... drill the weights off your 5.9 FP (I assume you have a 5.9 in there?) They look to be pinhole welds that should be pretty easy to drill out without getting into the FP itself but I haven't tried that route myself.

or.... get your converter built with the mounting tabs in the correct 90 degree or offset for your motor (and correct bolt size if it turns out to be different) Martin Saine can do this as needed...

Fourth - and my choice: Use the stock 727 flexplate.

Reason being - your 46RE, RH or 44RE was made with that CKPS relief in it - somewhat reinforced, cast/machined to minimize stress there.

That's why I asked about your HP and RPM use - per Martin, the relieving the FP offset hole/notching for CKPS thing is OK for a streeter, even with a bit of extra HP - but if you're going for big HP and higher RPMs it's much safer NOT to do either of those.

So what about the CKPS you might ask? - I'm going with a damper mounted trigger wheel for the stock sensor. That allows for the use of any FP - including an SFI approved unit.

One other thing you'll need - fitting adapters. The fittings into my 727 are 1/8NPT . Assuming your 46RE is like mine the trans fittings are 1/4NPT and it has bigger lines.

Hardware store should have adapters - if not try a hydraulic hose shop or possibly even one of the performance fitting makers like Russell, Aeroquip or Aeromotive among others. I just got the Russell catalog yesterday but haven't looked to see if they have 1/8 to 1/4 NPT adapters (kickin myself in the butt over that one - ordered lots of parts from Summit including Russell EFI adapter fittings - found out the day the package arrived that I need trans adapters too LOL)

NOTE: If you are having the 727 built they can enlarge the holes to 1/4NPT - but obviously that's not an option on a tranny that's already together.

Looks like the rest of it is a direct swap: shifter and TV arms and brackets look to be the same, speed sensor and NSS switch also.

now if someone can just post a pic of a Dodge 46RE or RH shifter bracket in my thread in the tranny section I'd be real happy!
I think I had to enlarge all the flex plate holes.
John Cope notched the tranny for the crank sensor, said it wouldn't be a problem. Most HP I'll ever make is 500 to the wheels...If that.
6AN fittings were installed for the transmission lines.

Pic of the bracket installed on the tranny? I'll crawl under my Ram and take one.
__________________
11.36 @ 118.87 All Motor on Mars.
Street racing is gay.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11  
Old 11-07-2009, 05:28 PM
Z88Z Z88Z is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Near Boston
Vehicle: 98 5.2 ZJ LTD/98 5.9 LTD
Posts: 130
Reputation: 10 Z88Z is just getting started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adobedude View Post
I think I had to enlarge all the flex plate holes.
John Cope notched the tranny for the crank sensor, said it wouldn't be a problem. Most HP I'll ever make is 500 to the wheels...If that.
6AN fittings were installed for the transmission lines.

Pic of the bracket installed on the tranny? I'll crawl under my Ram and take one.
Ya, I'm not sure what the actual HP or RPM limitation is that Martin was refering to but I'm hoping for a bit more than 500 from my build - plus an even bigger reason is that actually I'm setting this up as a running test motor before the stroker build and I'm not buying a stall converter til I have my transmission rebuilt - my weights were on the converter itself and it looked like it was gonna be a bear dealing with that so between that and the HP issues I just decided to play with the balancer mounted trigger wheel idea.

6AN fittings - good deal! Does that mean you went with aftermarket lines? I think my front is 6AN but the rear is set up as a push-lock style like the EFI lines - not sure if your Dodges are the same?

man if you could get me that pic I'd really appreciate it -I don't want to waste an hour round trip to the boneyard to see if I can use the Dodge 46RE bracket.
The Jeep 46RE shifter bracket fits my 727 just fine - problem is it's for a right side starter Jeep 46RE and my Jeep bracket wants to route the cable right where the 727 starter is!
I'm sure the Dodge 46RE bracket would fit the trans itself but the Jeep bracket just barely fits between the tunnel and the trans so if the Dodge bracket kicks out a lot more to the outside I won't be able to use it and will have to fab something instead.

You can PM me a pic or put it in this thread here: http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/...d.php?t=100421
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12  
Old 11-07-2009, 09:45 PM
danbap's Avatar
danbap danbap is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southeast wi.
Vehicle: procharged94'dakota360
Posts: 2,881
Reputation: 43 danbap must have done something right
when i did my swap i didn't have to inlarge any of the flex plate holes.( i used a flex plate from a 99. bolted right up). when i mounted a 99 360 to a 46rh i have to oblong one of the holes. but that was it. cut out a section on the bellhousing very simple for the crank sensor. got a adapter for the trans mount and had the drive shaft lengthened about 3 inches. im running a 727 with about 3000rpm stall and run 4.56 gears with a locker. its a little busy on the highway. and i got my speedo to work just by hooking up my speed sensor but i dont know about the new trucks mines a 94. the only thing is mine is off but i just have to the right gear for it.
__________________
94 clubcab, D1SC procharger, SMC meth, 727tf. R.I.P 450+rwhp
now: 360,727tf, locker w/4.56,B&G "flash", doug thorley headers, 3in ex.

79 mustang gettin after it on 10.5 /SS
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13  
Old 11-07-2009, 10:22 PM
slammedR/T's Avatar
slammedR/T slammedR/T is offline
Montana Dodge's BFF


 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: j-ville,FL.
Vehicle: 2000 Dakota R/T
Posts: 2,182
Reputation: 48 slammedR/T must have done something right
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowdak360 View Post
just get it rebuilt as a 518 thats what i did. FYI a 518 is basically a 904 with Overdrive and a 904 is a similar to a 727 just not as tough to my knowledge...like Adobedude said no point to go 727 unless its a drag truck which is my dream! but mine is too daily driven and stock
Way off there bud
518/46RH/46RE all all the same just the RE is electronic controlled and the RH is hydraulic controlled with a govner on the output shaft.
518/46RH/RE are like a 727 with an O/D
the 904 is like a 500/44RH/RE but with O/D

904 and 727 are similar but the 904 is smaller internals,higher first gear and has a double wrap low reverse band where the 727 has a single wrap band.
valve baodies from a 904 and 727 are the same and will transfer between the two(unless its a 999 witch has lock-up converter)
904 and 999 are the same execpt the 999 has a 5 disc front clutch and lock-up converter.



DEPUTY
__________________

"whipp'en dat ass on pump gas!" 9.262@144.69 200 shot 10.258@132.78 on motor



Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:19 AM
NXNLINE's Avatar
NXNLINE NXNLINE is offline
Will Race For Food


 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Middleburg, Fl
Vehicle: 2003 Durango R/T 5.9
Posts: 1,276
Reputation: 18 NXNLINE is just getting started
Hey Pal

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIVELITEREATER View Post
I want to swap out the 46RE in my 1998 CC R/T for a 727. What all needs to be done to make this work. The trans is out of the truck now. Does anyone have a link or someone I can contact? Thanks!


John
Talk to Chuck on here, he did the swap on his truck!
__________________
Put your money where your mouth is " BITCH "

2003 Durango R/T, SCT tuned by Hemifever, K&N cold air, upgrades coming soon!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15  
Old 11-08-2009, 03:32 AM
Adobedude Adobedude is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Corrales, New Mexico
Vehicle: 2001 Dakota R/T
Posts: 1,604
Reputation: 60 Adobedude has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z88Z View Post
Ya, I'm not sure what the actual HP or RPM limitation is that Martin was refering to but I'm hoping for a bit more than 500 from my build - plus an even bigger reason is that actually I'm setting this up as a running test motor before the stroker build and I'm not buying a stall converter til I have my transmission rebuilt - my weights were on the converter itself and it looked like it was gonna be a bear dealing with that so between that and the HP issues I just decided to play with the balancer mounted trigger wheel idea.

6AN fittings - good deal! Does that mean you went with aftermarket lines? I think my front is 6AN but the rear is set up as a push-lock style like the EFI lines - not sure if your Dodges are the same?

man if you could get me that pic I'd really appreciate it -I don't want to waste an hour round trip to the boneyard to see if I can use the Dodge 46RE bracket.
The Jeep 46RE shifter bracket fits my 727 just fine - problem is it's for a right side starter Jeep 46RE and my Jeep bracket wants to route the cable right where the 727 starter is!
I'm sure the Dodge 46RE bracket would fit the trans itself but the Jeep bracket just barely fits between the tunnel and the trans so if the Dodge bracket kicks out a lot more to the outside I won't be able to use it and will have to fab something instead.

You can PM me a pic or put it in this thread here: http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/...d.php?t=100421
Aftermarket -6AN SS braided lines to a B&M cooler.

I can take a pic of the 46RE bracket installed on the 46RE in my Ram, and a bracket sitting on a table....Tomorrow.
__________________
11.36 @ 118.87 All Motor on Mars.
Street racing is gay.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Dodge Durango Forum and Dodge Dakota Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:07 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
Copyright 2001-2010 Dakota-Durango Archive