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Old 08-13-2009, 09:58 PM
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Skim

What are the specs on this system? Does it send a signal to the pcm? Or does it control the auto shut down relay? Any helpful information would be appreciated.
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Old 09-08-2009, 08:33 PM
Airfirefuel Airfirefuel is offline
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This post is a little old, but I'll answer. The SKIM validates the key and sends a signal to the PCM with the key code. The PCM also validates the key (based on the key code passed from the SKIM) and if both modules agree that it is a good key, the engine is allowed to run.
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Old 09-08-2009, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airfirefuel View Post
This post is a little old, but I'll answer. The SKIM validates the key and sends a signal to the PCM with the key code. The PCM also validates the key (based on the key code passed from the SKIM) and if both modules agree that it is a good key, the engine is allowed to run.
what wire goes to the pcm from the skim? and what type of signal?

so basically no way to manually bypass this.
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:10 AM
Airfirefuel Airfirefuel is offline
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It goes over the data network that Chrysler calls the CCD Bus-- a twisted pair that goes between all of the networked modules.

Since it's a digital signal, there's no way to manually bypass it. You might be able to get rid of the system if you remove the SKIM and install a new PCM and BCM programmed to operate without the SKIM (either new or from a van without sentry key)-- I'm just speculating of course since I've never done that. It wouldn't be worth it for most people.

Why do you want to bypass it? Someone tried to steal my friend's Neon once and the sentry key system was very effective stopping him.
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Old 09-09-2009, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airfirefuel View Post
It goes over the data network that Chrysler calls the CCD Bus-- a twisted pair that goes between all of the networked modules.

Since it's a digital signal, there's no way to manually bypass it. You might be able to get rid of the system if you remove the SKIM and install a new PCM and BCM programmed to operate without the SKIM (either new or from a van without sentry key)-- I'm just speculating of course since I've never done that. It wouldn't be worth it for most people.

Why do you want to bypass it? Someone tried to steal my friend's Neon once and the sentry key system was very effective stopping him.
well my actual pcm or truck for that matter doesnt have sjim. the truck came with an auto and i finally got tired of it so i switched it to a manual. well the auto pcm shows codes for the auto not being there. but i have a manual pcm but seems to be skim locked cause at first it would start then die now it will just crank and not start. i would have returned the damn thing but the company i got it from was less than willing. now one of the SCT tuners believes that he can disable it...but needs a tester to do it and i dont have that kind of money or i would have already bought the prp package. so just seeing if there is any other way to be around it.
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Old 09-09-2009, 04:45 AM
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Send it to B&G in Detroit. When he did the flash on my PCM, it somehow disabled the skim and the module would not talk to the PCM. He said he did nothing to affect that, but my security light was always on and the truck ran. I had it at a dealer that I know and we tried a bunch of different things to get the security light out, but nothing worked and the truck ran. I have since sold that PCM to a guy with another '02 R/T and he never even had to program his VIN on to my old PCM and his truck runs fine. He never matched the key to the PCM or anything. Just plugged it in and his truck runs fine. So I know it can be done but I don't know what Dave at B&G did.
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:50 PM
l1tech l1tech is offline
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All Chrysler PCM's have SKIM built into them but it lays dormant if it is not a SKIM system. There used to be alot of problems on non-skimmed vehicles that would suddenly think they are skim equipped and then not start. If you want to remove the system you have to replace the pcm, bcm and then remove or unplug the skim module located in the steering column.
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kota360 View Post
Send it to B&G in Detroit. When he did the flash on my PCM, it somehow disabled the skim and the module would not talk to the PCM. He said he did nothing to affect that, but my security light was always on and the truck ran. I had it at a dealer that I know and we tried a bunch of different things to get the security light out, but nothing worked and the truck ran. I have since sold that PCM to a guy with another '02 R/T and he never even had to program his VIN on to my old PCM and his truck runs fine. He never matched the key to the PCM or anything. Just plugged it in and his truck runs fine. So I know it can be done but I don't know what Dave at B&G did.
not paying that guy 400 bucks for one little thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by l1tech View Post
All Chrysler PCM's have SKIM built into them but it lays dormant if it is not a SKIM system. There used to be alot of problems on non-skimmed vehicles that would suddenly think they are skim equipped and then not start. If you want to remove the system you have to replace the pcm, bcm and then remove or unplug the skim module located in the steering column.
again...my truck doesnt have factory security. a manual pcm that i had bought seems to be skim "locked" and i am just see what ways there are to disable it.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:47 PM
Airfirefuel Airfirefuel is offline
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Yeah, unfortunately there's no easy and cheap fix for this. You could try contacting a pcm "rebuilder" and see what they'll charge you to reflash this computer or you could check for a junkyard pcm from a truck with manual and no security. What truck and year is it?
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:22 AM
l1tech l1tech is offline
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The security is "locked" into the pcm and there is no way to change it. If you have the pcm rebuilt it will still have the SKIM in it.
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airfirefuel View Post
Yeah, unfortunately there's no easy and cheap fix for this. You could try contacting a pcm "rebuilder" and see what they'll charge you to reflash this computer or you could check for a junkyard pcm from a truck with manual and no security. What truck and year is it?
03 dakota
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:07 PM
Airfirefuel Airfirefuel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1tech View Post
The security is "locked" into the pcm and there is no way to change it. If you have the pcm rebuilt it will still have the SKIM in it.
I don't know what "rebuilders" do with a PCM, but I figured they'd have to be able to reset the skim function if they sell these things generally.

One idea I had that I've never had a chance to try is to start the flash process with a DRBIII, interrupt the flash in the middle, then erase the DRBIII memory to force a manual flash recovery. According to the TSB on the subject, that will start a process in which you have to configure the PCM from scratch-- seems to me that would be a complete reset. I've just never had a PCM that I wanted to risk.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airfirefuel View Post
I don't know what "rebuilders" do with a PCM, but I figured they'd have to be able to reset the skim function if they sell these things generally.

One idea I had that I've never had a chance to try is to start the flash process with a DRBIII, interrupt the flash in the middle, then erase the DRBIII memory to force a manual flash recovery. According to the TSB on the subject, that will start a process in which you have to configure the PCM from scratch-- seems to me that would be a complete reset. I've just never had a PCM that I wanted to risk.
i may just have to wait till i get the money for the sct package. one tuner said he can disable it, but not sure it will work as no one else has asked for such a thing.
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:42 AM
Mitsuru Mitsuru is offline
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Ok please forgive me but I'm not a Dakota/durango owner!
However, after reading this thread after a google search I emailed a few companies as I have a Chrysler/Dodge Neon.

This is going to make it easier if skim can be removed no need for megasquirt

Below are emails to a US company who can do it!

Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2011 01:37 AM
To: scottwest@autocomputerperformance.com
Subject: Question on Engine swap with 1998 voyager ecu

Hello
I would like your advise on what to do with my current project would be of help.

The car I'm using is a 1998 Chrysler/Dodge Neon mk 1/1st gen,
4 cylinder SOHC 2.0L engine with 31th 3 speed automatic transmission.

The doner vehicle is a Chrysler Voyager(dodge Minivan)
with a 3,3L V6 engine and a 4 speed electronicly controlled 41te
automatic transmission.

I have been told (can't remember where)
That the engine management box of the Voyager can't be used
on another vehicle because the sentry/skim system.

Yet I need to change the ECU to control the new V6 engine,
and to communicate with the Automatic transmission's control modual.

Is there a way to bypass and remove this option and it's extra wiring etc when a ecu is sent to you?

If so approximately how long would it take and what would the cost be?

I look forward to hearing from you soon , and thanks in advance for your reply
Aron
(I'm in the UK)


On 01/02/2011 20:15, scottwest@autocomputerperformance.com wrote:
Aron,
You will need to re-use the ECM, TCM and engine harness from the Voyager. Send us the ECM and

we will remove the factory security. You will need to remove the SKIM module from the steering column of the Neon. After that everything should work together. We will remove the security for $100 USD plus the return shipping. Be sure to include your name and email address with your ECM so we can arrange payment.
My head technician is intrigued by your project. He says the Neon should fly with that 3.3L. Perhaps you could send us some pictures once you get it running?
Good luck!
Michael
ACE - (888) 664-8787


Hello Micheal
Thanks for your response.
I had a thought and thought I'd better ask now before the ecu was sent.
As the Voyager/minivan's ecu is on a ccd bus system with the transmissions
control unit so it can get the sensor detail.s form the ecu to change gear.
Would the TCU have the skim details in it to? if so wouyld that need to be sent?

Please forgive the names I use but they do have different names on this side of the pond!

As for the Ecu/ecm of the car I'm retro fitting with the voyager engine and transmission,
as it is one of the 1st generation neons it never came with skim when exported to the UK.

There are 2 links below which might have your intrest.

This gentleman is using a 1929 Willys Whippet with a Dodge Neon SRT-4 engine in the back
(USA owner)
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=372253

And this is also a Voyager/Minivan in a neon but with a manual transmission (USA owner)
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=362166

I am a member of neons.org and my user name is 'Mitsuru' just so you know.
Also they are a few (very few and far between) people who state that they can do what you
do for imobilizers, but when I said it was a chrysler they wouldn't give me the time of day!
I'm a member of the http://www.yorksyanks.co.uk (a Yorkshire American Car Club)
So your details will be passed to both forums.

After a little research the Neon v6's that have been done, none were right hand drive.
so will mine be the 1st !
So enjoy the fun lol, speak soon.

Aron 'Mitsuru'


After I went through your posts which has shown a solution I thought it would only be polite to share the information I have received as a result of your posts
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  #15  
Old 02-02-2011, 06:27 AM
Mitsuru Mitsuru is offline
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SKIM/Immobilizer disabling and removal,
this subject has been discussed but I could not find a sticky for this subject! I have posted this on www.neons.org too infact I just copied all I posted there and put it here

From what I understand from posts on this forum and others.

If a new uncoded (or specifically flashed Engine Control Unit/Module) is fitted it will see that there is a security code from the immobilizer/security module or from the wiring to the receiver from around the ignition barrel and say 'Oh we have security protocols what's the code?'

If you change the keys, instrument cluster, ECU/PCM or immobilizer module, or skim ariel you will have to reprogram everything. The gauge cluster, pcm, and skim module (key box&key) must all agree and have all the same vin programmed into them. if you had all three, the skim would never even know it's been moved! If you have the key, module and pcm, they can and will program the gauge.

But if you have access to a drbIII you can reprogram the VIN with the computer in the car if you wanted to!
The Key fob has nothing to do with the skim. the chip is in the key. Once the 'sentry' feature is activated on a ECU/PCM, it can not be 'de-activated', but it can be changed or made blank ready for a new car.

However if a car has had the immobilizer and the sentry system removed including the SKIM ariel around the barrel, and an uncoded ECU/PCM is fitted it will work without the need of a skim and the immobilizer or the need to be programmed regardless of staged or stock cluster

This is what a SKIM ariel module basically looks like (Borrowed from a Jeep forum):


The sentry key only needs to be seen when the car is initially started, after that, it doesn't care where it is. You could actually use a cheap key and start the car with the sentry key next to it. once its started you can put the sentry key away and car will run fine. So alternatively if you wanted to fit a remote start kit you could remove the chip from the key affix it near the ariel and put the ariel under the dashboard if you didn't want to flash the ECU/PCM and remove the immobilizer.

The Quote below is on the neons.org forum but took some finding to quote "NOS2006"

Not sure exactly how much significance this has on us Neon owners, but I think it's a pretty interesting find...

http://www.obd2.com/support/reprog/d...im_initial.pdf

Cliff notes: it basically tells why you have to program a PCM with a SKIM and gives a phone number where you can supposedly call and rent a DRBIII.



EDIT: Here's another page I just found. Not Chrysler-sourced, but page 2 is pretty informative:

http://www.ae-diagnosticsolutions.co...ember_2009.pdf
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