Is E85 worth it? - Dakota Durango Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 05-30-2009, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
ic3man05
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Is E85 worth it?

I got sick of doing the math in my head all the time for how much the price changes so I wrote a program. Turns out I'm saving little over a dollar running e85.

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post #2 of 18 Old 05-30-2009, 02:28 PM
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sweet! can you write me a program for winning lottery numbers?

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post #3 of 18 Old 05-30-2009, 04:30 PM
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You can't run e85 unless you have a standalone and huge injectors. I talked to hemifever about an SCT tune for e85 and a blower, and he wouldn't hear it.

The cost savings increase dramatically if your motor is set up with high enough static compression, or boost to take advantage of the high octane rating of e85. You can dramatically improve the thermodynamic efficiency of the engine at elevated compression ratios. All the studies on e85 seem to mostly neglect this. Making it from corn doesn't make sense, but e85 is a potent and cheap street/strip fuel.


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post #4 of 18 Old 05-30-2009, 07:27 PM
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Unless you have a flex fuel vehicle, damage will occur.

No fear, no doubt, all in balls out

If every American cared enough to purchase one USA made garment per year the impact would be $9 billion. That is a lot of American jobs.
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post #5 of 18 Old 05-30-2009, 08:31 PM
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I have flex fuel in my 08, but i have never used e85 yet
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post #6 of 18 Old 05-31-2009, 08:09 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five9Dak View Post
You can't run e85 unless you have a standalone and huge injectors. I talked to hemifever about an SCT tune for e85 and a blower, and he wouldn't hear it.

The cost savings increase dramatically if your motor is set up with high enough static compression, or boost to take advantage of the high octane rating of e85. You can dramatically improve the thermodynamic efficiency of the engine at elevated compression ratios. All the studies on e85 seem to mostly neglect this. Making it from corn doesn't make sense, but e85 is a potent and cheap street/strip fuel.
doesn't e85 have an octane rating of over 110?

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Originally Posted by Kbabiasz06
I have flex fuel in my 08, but i have never used e85 yet
Mine runs better on e85, plus the exhaust smells cooler.

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post #7 of 18 Old 05-31-2009, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ic3man05 View Post
doesn't e85 have an octane rating of over 110? :
Yes, that is why my first alchol injection test were conducted with denatured alcohol aka Ethanol. Ethanol has become popular with standard water injection systems for boost applications.
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post #8 of 18 Old 06-04-2009, 12:22 AM
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I decided to try a tank of E-85 which was $1.69 gal. So far I'm averaging a computer calculated 12.5 MPG with no hot rodding around. And I feel like it's down on power just a little bit. I probably won't try it again. I just don't see how E-85 can be used as a viable alternative with the vehicles of today.
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post #9 of 18 Old 06-04-2009, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spshultz View Post
I decided to try a tank of E-85 which was $1.69 gal. So far I'm averaging a computer calculated 12.5 MPG with no hot rodding around. And I feel like it's down on power just a little bit. I probably won't try it again. I just don't see how E-85 can be used as a viable alternative with the vehicles of today.

Its more or less there because it doesnt have the emissions like gas and it saves people money. I was going to try it, but after reading your post and seeing the miles lost in the first post, i think ill just spend the extra $1/gal
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post #10 of 18 Old 06-04-2009, 02:12 AM
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I'll try to be brief!

E-85 is 110 octane. octane is only good if your engine needs it...octane means RESISTANCE to burning. there are very good chances that adding higher octane than what you need to your engine, will actually make LESS power because the fuel is burning slower

so on a standard, low compression engine, E-85 is a waste, as you get less mileage, and less power, when the engine is "set up" to run on BOTH 87 octane pump gas, and E-85.

E85 can be a great thing if they build the engine STRICTLY for E85, and give it 13 or 14:1 compression, where you would normally need expensive race gas, now you can run cheap E85 out of the pump. when engines are built for E85, they will make MORE power than when they are run on gasoline.

you still get lower mileage though due to the lower BTU value per gallon of alcohol vs gasoline.

cost wise...I got bad news for you. the only reason why E85 is cheaper right now, is because it's getting a government subsidy in the form of a $1 per gallon tax break...once the government decides to tax E85 the same as regular gasoline, it will be MORE expensive than 87 octane pump gas.

plus, depending on what they make it from, E85 isn't all that effecient...say if it's corn, they get something like 7 gallons of E85 for every 1 gallon of gasoline they burn during the entire process --diesel for farm tractors, and hauling around corn to market, etc. to the ethanol plant, the energy put into the process to turn it from corn into alcohol which requires lots and lots of heat to cook the mix prior to fermentation, much like making beer. then the gasoline they mix it with to mix the pure alcohol down to 85%

imagine what happens with that 7:1 ratio when EVERYTHING is running some sort of ethanol/biodiesel, and is getting 20% less mileage!
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post #11 of 18 Old 06-04-2009, 04:38 AM
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For the flex fuel vehicles, it doesn't really make sense to use. Now aftermarket boosted applications on the other hand..... hehe.


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post #12 of 18 Old 06-04-2009, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spshultz View Post
I decided to try a tank of E-85 which was $1.69 gal. So far I'm averaging a computer calculated 12.5 MPG with no hot rodding around. And I feel like it's down on power just a little bit. I probably won't try it again. I just don't see how E-85 can be used as a viable alternative with the vehicles of today.
whats your mpg on gas?

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post #13 of 18 Old 06-04-2009, 02:23 PM
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My question is: Why do they (the manufacturers) think that it's good to have a Flex Fuel vehicle in their lineup when the engines produced really aren't set up to take advantage of the fuel? Why would anyone be OK with less power and less fuel economy?

I'm running a 3" Borla Exhaust, CAI and Hypertech on the "Premium" setting and am seeing around 18 - 19 (computer says 20) miles per gallon in mixed city/highway driving (about 40% city, 60% highway (75mph)). I'm going to run out this tank of E85, run another tank of 91 through it and then drop down to the "Regular" setting (87) and run 87 for a while to see how it does. I only have about 7500 miles on the truck so I think the engine is still breaking in and loosening up (I hope).

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post #14 of 18 Old 06-04-2009, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spshultz View Post
My question is: Why do they (the manufacturers) think that it's good to have a Flex Fuel vehicle in their lineup when the engines produced really aren't set up to take advantage of the fuel? Why would anyone be OK with less power and less fuel economy?

has sumthin to do with the govt tax breaks for fleets and what the govt eventually wants us to own.

as for the engines, the sensors can/will be able to tell what fuel your using and make the necessary adj for it (O2, knock, egt....)

and as mentioned above, E85 has certain needs as far as the fuel lines, injectors or you will have tons of leaks and other problems.

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post #15 of 18 Old 06-04-2009, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spshultz View Post
My question is: Why do they (the manufacturers) think that it's good to have a Flex Fuel vehicle in their lineup when the engines produced really aren't set up to take advantage of the fuel? Why would anyone be OK with less power and less fuel economy?

I'm running a 3" Borla Exhaust, CAI and Hypertech on the "Premium" setting and am seeing around 18 - 19 (computer says 20) miles per gallon in mixed city/highway driving (about 40% city, 60% highway (75mph)). I'm going to run out this tank of E85, run another tank of 91 through it and then drop down to the "Regular" setting (87) and run 87 for a while to see how it does. I only have about 7500 miles on the truck so I think the engine is still breaking in and loosening up (I hope).
I think the only reason e85 happened is to keep the tree huggers happy. I think dodge specifically said implementing flex fuel on the hemi is a waste of time because there is no demand and once people fill up on it once they decide its not worth it. If the engine was tuned for e85 (higher compression/more fuel) it would greatly increase power but greatly reduce mpg. Maybe an MDS system on all cylinders would be able to counter this and bring it near gas mpg.

I'm running a completely stock 08 dak and was getting 10.5 with e85 city and 12.7 with gas city. I have a REALLY heavy foot, but what I noticed with e85 if I baby it was about 11.5mpg anyways.

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