Is E85 worth it? - Dodge Durango Forum and Dodge Dakota Forums
Register Home Forum Extras Website Features Timeslips Calendar Garage Auto Loans Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Gen V Dakotas 2008+ Dakota-Specific Questions

Dakota-Durango.com is the premier Dodge Dakota Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-30-2009, 11:41 AM
ic3man05's Avatar
ic3man05 ic3man05 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: michigan
Vehicle: 2000 dodge dakota
Posts: 313
Reputation: 14 ic3man05 is just getting started
Is E85 worth it?

I got sick of doing the math in my head all the time for how much the price changes so I wrote a program. Turns out I'm saving little over a dollar running e85.

Attached Files
File Type: zip E85Calculator.zip (5.5 KB, 21 views)
__________________
2000 Dakota CC 4x4 with 2007 5.7L HEMI (WIP)
Upgrades: Shorty Headers, KRC MDS Cam, 45RFE-HD2 Shift kit, 3" Dynomax exhaust system, 6.1L HEMI pushrods/valve springs/ported oil pump, clutch fan delete, custom cold air intake
Dakota Hemi Swap Pictures - www.dakota-hemi.com WIP for my swap
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 05-30-2009, 01:28 PM
Jarheadoo7's Avatar
Jarheadoo7 Jarheadoo7 is offline
don't feed the bears

 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: N.R Ohio
Vehicle: 2001 Dakota
Posts: 10,668
Reputation: 197 Jarheadoo7 is a name known to allJarheadoo7 is a name known to all
sweet! can you write me a program for winning lottery numbers?
__________________
::
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 05-30-2009, 03:30 PM
Five9Dak Five9Dak is offline
Blown and Squirted
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Delaware County, PA
Vehicle: 99 Dakota R/T Reg Cab
Posts: 3,405
Reputation: 47 Five9Dak must have done something right
Send a message via AIM to Five9Dak
You can't run e85 unless you have a standalone and huge injectors. I talked to hemifever about an SCT tune for e85 and a blower, and he wouldn't hear it.

The cost savings increase dramatically if your motor is set up with high enough static compression, or boost to take advantage of the high octane rating of e85. You can dramatically improve the thermodynamic efficiency of the engine at elevated compression ratios. All the studies on e85 seem to mostly neglect this. Making it from corn doesn't make sense, but e85 is a potent and cheap street/strip fuel.
__________________

'99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 9" 3000, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
Z Code Performance Website
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 05-30-2009, 06:27 PM
9t9-5.2's Avatar
9t9-5.2 9t9-5.2 is offline
Home School Valedictorian
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: I-O-WA
Vehicle: 9t9-5.2
Posts: 4,176
Reputation: 122 9t9-5.2 is just really nice9t9-5.2 is just really nice
Unless you have a flex fuel vehicle, damage will occur.
__________________
No fear, no doubt, all in balls out

If every American cared enough to purchase one USA made garment per year the impact would be $9 billion. That is a lot of American jobs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 05-30-2009, 07:31 PM
Kbabiasz06 Kbabiasz06 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Macomb. Mi
Vehicle: 2008-Dodge-Dakota
Posts: 684
Reputation: 13 Kbabiasz06 is just getting started
Send a message via AIM to Kbabiasz06
I have flex fuel in my 08, but i have never used e85 yet
__________________
Myspace


My Car domain
http://www.cardomain.com/id/Kbabiasz06
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 05-31-2009, 07:09 AM
ic3man05's Avatar
ic3man05 ic3man05 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: michigan
Vehicle: 2000 dodge dakota
Posts: 313
Reputation: 14 ic3man05 is just getting started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Five9Dak View Post
You can't run e85 unless you have a standalone and huge injectors. I talked to hemifever about an SCT tune for e85 and a blower, and he wouldn't hear it.

The cost savings increase dramatically if your motor is set up with high enough static compression, or boost to take advantage of the high octane rating of e85. You can dramatically improve the thermodynamic efficiency of the engine at elevated compression ratios. All the studies on e85 seem to mostly neglect this. Making it from corn doesn't make sense, but e85 is a potent and cheap street/strip fuel.
doesn't e85 have an octane rating of over 110?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbabiasz06
I have flex fuel in my 08, but i have never used e85 yet
Mine runs better on e85, plus the exhaust smells cooler.
__________________
2000 Dakota CC 4x4 with 2007 5.7L HEMI (WIP)
Upgrades: Shorty Headers, KRC MDS Cam, 45RFE-HD2 Shift kit, 3" Dynomax exhaust system, 6.1L HEMI pushrods/valve springs/ported oil pump, clutch fan delete, custom cold air intake
Dakota Hemi Swap Pictures - www.dakota-hemi.com WIP for my swap
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 05-31-2009, 07:37 AM
05SLT's Avatar
05SLT 05SLT is offline
Blown287
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Omaha, NE
Vehicle: Blown 05 4.7L Dakota
Posts: 1,157
Reputation: 44 05SLT must have done something right
Quote:
Originally Posted by ic3man05 View Post
doesn't e85 have an octane rating of over 110? :
Yes, that is why my first alchol injection test were conducted with denatured alcohol aka Ethanol. Ethanol has become popular with standard water injection systems for boost applications.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 06-03-2009, 11:22 PM
xxxxxxxxxspshultz xxxxxxxxxspshultz is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Any town USA
Vehicle: 1997 Dodge Dakota 5.2 V8
Posts: 207
Reputation: 13 xxxxxxxxxspshultz is just getting started
I decided to try a tank of E-85 which was $1.69 gal. So far I'm averaging a computer calculated 12.5 MPG with no hot rodding around. And I feel like it's down on power just a little bit. I probably won't try it again. I just don't see how E-85 can be used as a viable alternative with the vehicles of today.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 06-04-2009, 12:05 AM
Kbabiasz06 Kbabiasz06 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Macomb. Mi
Vehicle: 2008-Dodge-Dakota
Posts: 684
Reputation: 13 Kbabiasz06 is just getting started
Send a message via AIM to Kbabiasz06
Quote:
Originally Posted by spshultz View Post
I decided to try a tank of E-85 which was $1.69 gal. So far I'm averaging a computer calculated 12.5 MPG with no hot rodding around. And I feel like it's down on power just a little bit. I probably won't try it again. I just don't see how E-85 can be used as a viable alternative with the vehicles of today.

Its more or less there because it doesnt have the emissions like gas and it saves people money. I was going to try it, but after reading your post and seeing the miles lost in the first post, i think ill just spend the extra $1/gal
__________________
Myspace


My Car domain
http://www.cardomain.com/id/Kbabiasz06
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 06-04-2009, 01:12 AM
70Cuda383's Avatar
70Cuda383 70Cuda383 is offline
Don't be "That Guy"

 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Marysville O - H - I - O
Vehicle: 98 Dakota Clubcab 7.2L
Posts: 7,390
Reputation: 181 70Cuda383 is a name known to all70Cuda383 is a name known to all
I'll try to be brief!

E-85 is 110 octane. octane is only good if your engine needs it...octane means RESISTANCE to burning. there are very good chances that adding higher octane than what you need to your engine, will actually make LESS power because the fuel is burning slower

so on a standard, low compression engine, E-85 is a waste, as you get less mileage, and less power, when the engine is "set up" to run on BOTH 87 octane pump gas, and E-85.

E85 can be a great thing if they build the engine STRICTLY for E85, and give it 13 or 14:1 compression, where you would normally need expensive race gas, now you can run cheap E85 out of the pump. when engines are built for E85, they will make MORE power than when they are run on gasoline.

you still get lower mileage though due to the lower BTU value per gallon of alcohol vs gasoline.

cost wise...I got bad news for you. the only reason why E85 is cheaper right now, is because it's getting a government subsidy in the form of a $1 per gallon tax break...once the government decides to tax E85 the same as regular gasoline, it will be MORE expensive than 87 octane pump gas.

plus, depending on what they make it from, E85 isn't all that effecient...say if it's corn, they get something like 7 gallons of E85 for every 1 gallon of gasoline they burn during the entire process --diesel for farm tractors, and hauling around corn to market, etc. to the ethanol plant, the energy put into the process to turn it from corn into alcohol which requires lots and lots of heat to cook the mix prior to fermentation, much like making beer. then the gasoline they mix it with to mix the pure alcohol down to 85%

imagine what happens with that 7:1 ratio when EVERYTHING is running some sort of ethanol/biodiesel, and is getting 20% less mileage!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11  
Old 06-04-2009, 03:38 AM
Five9Dak Five9Dak is offline
Blown and Squirted
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Delaware County, PA
Vehicle: 99 Dakota R/T Reg Cab
Posts: 3,405
Reputation: 47 Five9Dak must have done something right
Send a message via AIM to Five9Dak
For the flex fuel vehicles, it doesn't really make sense to use. Now aftermarket boosted applications on the other hand..... hehe.
__________________

'99 R/T- MSIIextra fuel/spark/idle, ZCP mx422 supercharged, ZCP Tbrake 727, PPC 9" 3000, 4.10, (\/) Headers, 2.5" Duals, Truetrac, Boyd Timeless 6's, Hotchkis TVS.
Z Code Performance Website
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12  
Old 06-04-2009, 01:18 PM
ic3man05's Avatar
ic3man05 ic3man05 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: michigan
Vehicle: 2000 dodge dakota
Posts: 313
Reputation: 14 ic3man05 is just getting started
Quote:
Originally Posted by spshultz View Post
I decided to try a tank of E-85 which was $1.69 gal. So far I'm averaging a computer calculated 12.5 MPG with no hot rodding around. And I feel like it's down on power just a little bit. I probably won't try it again. I just don't see how E-85 can be used as a viable alternative with the vehicles of today.
whats your mpg on gas?
__________________
2000 Dakota CC 4x4 with 2007 5.7L HEMI (WIP)
Upgrades: Shorty Headers, KRC MDS Cam, 45RFE-HD2 Shift kit, 3" Dynomax exhaust system, 6.1L HEMI pushrods/valve springs/ported oil pump, clutch fan delete, custom cold air intake
Dakota Hemi Swap Pictures - www.dakota-hemi.com WIP for my swap
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13  
Old 06-04-2009, 01:23 PM
xxxxxxxxxspshultz xxxxxxxxxspshultz is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Any town USA
Vehicle: 1997 Dodge Dakota 5.2 V8
Posts: 207
Reputation: 13 xxxxxxxxxspshultz is just getting started
My question is: Why do they (the manufacturers) think that it's good to have a Flex Fuel vehicle in their lineup when the engines produced really aren't set up to take advantage of the fuel? Why would anyone be OK with less power and less fuel economy?

I'm running a 3" Borla Exhaust, CAI and Hypertech on the "Premium" setting and am seeing around 18 - 19 (computer says 20) miles per gallon in mixed city/highway driving (about 40% city, 60% highway (75mph)). I'm going to run out this tank of E85, run another tank of 91 through it and then drop down to the "Regular" setting (87) and run 87 for a while to see how it does. I only have about 7500 miles on the truck so I think the engine is still breaking in and loosening up (I hope).

Last edited by xxxxxxxxxspshultz; 06-04-2009 at 01:31 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14  
Old 06-04-2009, 02:59 PM
razman131's Avatar
razman131 razman131 is offline
Home Owner....

 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Chula Vista/San Diego
Vehicle: 1999 Dakota R/T
Posts: 2,565
Reputation: 29 razman131 must have done something right
Send a message via Yahoo to razman131 Send a message via Skype™ to razman131
Quote:
Originally Posted by spshultz View Post
My question is: Why do they (the manufacturers) think that it's good to have a Flex Fuel vehicle in their lineup when the engines produced really aren't set up to take advantage of the fuel? Why would anyone be OK with less power and less fuel economy?

has sumthin to do with the govt tax breaks for fleets and what the govt eventually wants us to own.

as for the engines, the sensors can/will be able to tell what fuel your using and make the necessary adj for it (O2, knock, egt....)

and as mentioned above, E85 has certain needs as far as the fuel lines, injectors or you will have tons of leaks and other problems.
__________________
1999 Dakota R/T (mild to heavy mod)
2006 Magnum SRT8 (not *yet* modded)
2004 Dodge Caravan SXT.... Momy Mobile
BEATER: 1991 Honda Civic DX 4dr
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15  
Old 06-04-2009, 03:01 PM
ic3man05's Avatar
ic3man05 ic3man05 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: michigan
Vehicle: 2000 dodge dakota
Posts: 313
Reputation: 14 ic3man05 is just getting started
Quote:
Originally Posted by spshultz View Post
My question is: Why do they (the manufacturers) think that it's good to have a Flex Fuel vehicle in their lineup when the engines produced really aren't set up to take advantage of the fuel? Why would anyone be OK with less power and less fuel economy?

I'm running a 3" Borla Exhaust, CAI and Hypertech on the "Premium" setting and am seeing around 18 - 19 (computer says 20) miles per gallon in mixed city/highway driving (about 40% city, 60% highway (75mph)). I'm going to run out this tank of E85, run another tank of 91 through it and then drop down to the "Regular" setting (87) and run 87 for a while to see how it does. I only have about 7500 miles on the truck so I think the engine is still breaking in and loosening up (I hope).
I think the only reason e85 happened is to keep the tree huggers happy. I think dodge specifically said implementing flex fuel on the hemi is a waste of time because there is no demand and once people fill up on it once they decide its not worth it. If the engine was tuned for e85 (higher compression/more fuel) it would greatly increase power but greatly reduce mpg. Maybe an MDS system on all cylinders would be able to counter this and bring it near gas mpg.

I'm running a completely stock 08 dak and was getting 10.5 with e85 city and 12.7 with gas city. I have a REALLY heavy foot, but what I noticed with e85 if I baby it was about 11.5mpg anyways.
__________________
2000 Dakota CC 4x4 with 2007 5.7L HEMI (WIP)
Upgrades: Shorty Headers, KRC MDS Cam, 45RFE-HD2 Shift kit, 3" Dynomax exhaust system, 6.1L HEMI pushrods/valve springs/ported oil pump, clutch fan delete, custom cold air intake
Dakota Hemi Swap Pictures - www.dakota-hemi.com WIP for my swap
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Dodge Durango Forum and Dodge Dakota Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:23 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
Copyright 2001-2010 Dakota-Durango Archive