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  #1  
Old 07-08-2011, 05:04 PM
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What does "no bus" mean?

while driving my new to me 1999 5.2 Durango it just died. In the odometer it said "no bus" and the truck wont start...need some help please.
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:29 PM
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PCM is dead.

Either that or some of the wiring to it has come loose or corroded.
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:33 PM
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Is it expensive to replace? Are they readily available? It's weird that it showed no warning signs, no check engine codes or anything, it just died
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:35 PM
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Same thing happened to my Titan. A relay in the IPDM went bad, which controls the power to the computer - Truck died, but started up as if no issues. 10 minutes later, dead for good.

Cost me $181 for a new IPDM because apparently at the time you couldn't get JUST the relay - a year later Nissan released just the relay for $24.

Anywho.. the PCM should be an easy find/buy for $2-300?. Hell you may even get lucky and find one in a junk yard.
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Leroy R/T View Post
PCM is dead.

Either that or some of the wiring to it has come loose or corroded.
That would be my guess. In the world of computing a bus is something that allows data to be communicated between different pieces of hardware.


That said, it might me something completely off-the-wall because engineers love to screw with people. I recently stumbled upon the meaning of the infamous printer error "PC LOAD LETTER" and the meaning is ridiculous! "PC" stands for "paper cassette" instead of "personal computer" like every normal person would assume, and "LETTER" refers to 8.5"x11" letter-sized. What the hell is a paper cassette anyway? Has anyone in the real world ever referred to a paper tray as a paper cassette? Why didn't they make the error say "LOAD PAPER"!
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Shackleford View Post
That would be my guess. In the world of computing a bus is something that allows data to be communicated between different pieces of hardware.


That said, it might me something completely off-the-wall because engineers love to screw with people. I recently stumbled upon the meaning of the infamous printer error "PC LOAD LETTER" and the meaning is ridiculous! "PC" stands for "paper cassette" instead of "personal computer" like every normal person would assume, and "LETTER" refers to 8.5"x11" letter-sized. What the hell is a paper cassette anyway? Has anyone in the real world ever referred to a paper tray as a paper cassette? Why didn't they make the error say "LOAD PAPER"!
There's actually eight variants of that message in US printers. PC, LC, MP, and MF, LOAD LEGAL, and LOAD LETTER (other countries refer to their standard paper sizes). It was an attempt by HP to standardize error messages, and this was from before "Personal Computers" were common. Computers were strictly office equipment. It was also a time where memory was very expensive so things were abbreviated wherever possible. Today's printers and all-in-ones tell you exactly what they want in plain english (most even SHOW you in pictures).

PC = Paper Cassette (Top tray), LC = Lower Cassette (bottom tray), MP = MultiPurpose Tray (can be assigned to either a cassette or tray, but must have adjustable paper guides), and MF = Manual Feeder (the single sheet feeder on the front, usually used for envelopes or label sheets).


-----

But anyway back to the OP, you will want to go through and check all of your ground points, check all of your fuses, and check all of the PCM connections. Pull the plugs out and make sure there is no corrosion. Make sure the wires have not been chewed by animals.

Also check the Crankshaft Position Sensor (passenger side, bottom rear of the engine, accessible through the wheel well).. There is a known issue where this sensor shorts the 5V lead to ground, which puts the computer into protection (read: sits there like a brick) mode. Unplug the sensor, then disconnect the negative battery lead for 1 minute, then reconnect and see if the nO bUS message goes away. There are actually four separate sensors that could cause this problem (they are all connected to the same +5v lead), but the crank position sensor is the usual culprit. The others are Cam position sensor, MAP sensor, and Throttle Position sensor.

If it turns out you do need a new PCM, be VERY careful buying one from a junkyard. You have to match year, model, engine size, and features like security and transmission, then it still needs to be flashed at the dealer with your VIN and mileage, and most junkyards offer no returns on electrical parts so if its bad or wrong, you're stuck with it. Better off buying a new one.
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fuck it, Im going to convert those to HID and stick them in my heads, fogs, tails, double heads, and my butt so I make a halo while shitting

It would be like a holy shit, and maybe one around my penis for that illuminating experience a girl has hahahaahahahaah
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Last edited by TazRango; 07-09-2011 at 12:54 AM.
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  #7  
Old 07-09-2011, 01:07 AM
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I had it towed to a shop today. They said the fault was in the CTM (centeral timing module) that is behind the glove box and the pcm by the passenger fender. Could it really be both sensors? It did start back up and drive this morning but died again a few miles later. I can get both the CTM and the PCM from eBay for about $300. The PCM is a reman unit programmed to my truck and the CTM is off another 99 Durango with my same options. I hate to spend that much money if you guys think it might be something simpler
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:17 AM
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It's highly unlikely, damn near impossible that BOTH are bad (the CTM and PCM are not sensors, they are computers). It sounds like they have no idea what's wrong if they are suggesting that both are bad. I'm surprised they didn't say the instrument panel was bad while they were at it. If anything it is just the PCM, but don't buy it just yet.

Did you try unplugging each of the sensors that I suggested one at a time? Start with the Crank sensor.
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"Ever had one of those days where you want to light someone's face on fire and try to put it out with a fork?"
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fuck it, Im going to convert those to HID and stick them in my heads, fogs, tails, double heads, and my butt so I make a halo while shitting

It would be like a holy shit, and maybe one around my penis for that illuminating experience a girl has hahahaahahahaah
Quote:
"Through this inscription I wish to enter my dying protest against what is called the Democratic party. I have watched it closely since the days of Jackson, and know that all the misfortunes of our nation has come to it though this so-called party. Therefore beware this party of TREASON." -Nathaniel Grigsby (1890)
Quote:
"How many times is Biden gonna say something stupid?" -Barack Obama (378 gaffes and counting!)

Last edited by TazRango; 07-09-2011 at 02:22 AM.
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  #9  
Old 07-09-2011, 02:30 AM
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Here, I went and looked it up in my reference..

Vehicles:
1998 - 1999 Dodge Durango 3.9L
2000 - 2001 Dodge Durango 4.7L
1998 - 2000 Dodge Durango 5.2L
1998 - 2001 Dodge Durango 5.9L



Symptom: Engine will not start. Gauges are inoperative. nO buS message displayed on odometer.



System: Body/Chassis Electrical, Emissions/PCM/Fuel, Engine Electrical



Codes: N/A



Problem 1 of 6:
The 5v power supply from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is shorted due to a shorted Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor.

Test & Fix: If the 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground, the CCD bus is unable to transmit messages and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) appears to be "dead". The PCM is not damaged when the 5v power supply gets shorted to ground, but does need to be reset by turning the key off for 10 second after the short is removed. Using a DVOM or labscope, measure the voltage on the 5v reference wire at the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) or Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor. If 5v is not present, unplug the Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor. Turn the key off for 10 seconds. Turn the key on and measure the voltage on the 5v power supply circuit. If the voltage is now 5v, replace the CKP sensor.



Problem 2 of 6: The 5v power supply from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is shorted due to a shorted Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor.

Test & Fix: If the 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground, the CCD bus is unable to transmit messages and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) appears to be "dead". The PCM is not damaged when the 5v power supply gets shorted to ground, but does need to be reset by turning the key off for 10 second after the short is removed. Using a DVOM or labscope, measure the voltage on the 5v reference wire at the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) or Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor. If 5v is not present, unplug the Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor. Turn the key off for 10 seconds. Turn the key on and measure the voltage on the 5v power supply circuit. If the voltage is now 5v, replace the CMP sensor.



Problem 3 of 6: The 5v power supply from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is shorted due to a shorted Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor.

Test & Fix: If the 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground, the CCD bus is unable to transmit messages and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) appears to be "dead". The PCM is not damaged when the 5v power supply gets shorted to ground, but does need to be reset by turning the key off for 10 second after the short is removed. Using a DVOM or labscope, measure the voltage on the 5v reference wire (5v power supply) at the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) or Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor. If 5v is not present, unplug the MAP sensor. Turn the key off for 10 seconds. Turn the key on and measure the voltage on the 5v power supply circuit. If the voltage is now 5v, replace the MAP sensor.



Problem 4 of 6:
The 5v power supply from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is shorted due to a shorted Throttle Position Sensor (TPS).

Test & Fix: If the 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground, the CCD bus is unable to transmit messages and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) appears to be "dead". The PCM is not damaged when the 5v power supply gets shorted to ground, but does need to be reset by turning the key off for 10 second after the short is removed. Using a DVOM or labscope, measure the voltage on the 5v reference wire (5 volt power supply) at the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) or Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor. If 5v is not present, unplug the TPS. Turn the key off for 10 seconds. Turn the key on and measure the voltage on the 5v power supply circuit. If the voltage is now 5v, replace the TPS.


Problem 5 of 6: The 5v power supply from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is shorted due to a shorted wire.

Test & Fix: If the 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground, the CCD bus is unable to transmit messages and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) appears to be "dead". The PCM is not damaged when the 5v power supply gets shorted to ground, but does need to be reset by turning the key off for 10 second after the short is removed. Using a DVOM or labscope, measure the voltage on the 5v reference wire at the throttle position sensor (TPS) or manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor. If 5v is not present, unplug all sensors that are connected to the 5v power supply and disconnect the PCM. Check if either 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground using a DVOM. If the circuit is found to be shorted to ground, repair the wire and the cause of the short.



Problem 6 of 6:
The 5v power supply from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is shorted due to a shorted Governor Pressure Sensor.

Test & Fix: If the 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground, the CCD bus is unable to transmit messages and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) appears to be "dead". The PCM is not damaged when the 5v power supply gets shorted to ground, but does need to be reset by turning the key off for 10 second after the short is removed. Using a DVOM or labscope, measure the voltage on the 5v reference wire at the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) or Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor. If 5v is not present, unplug the large round connector on the driver's side of the transmission. Turn the key off for 10 seconds. Turn the key on and measure the voltage on the 5v power supply circuit. If the voltage is now 5v, remove the transmission pan and check for shorted wiring inside the transmission. If the wiring is OK, replace the Governor Pressure Sensor.
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Quote:
"Ever had one of those days where you want to light someone's face on fire and try to put it out with a fork?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Texxan View Post
fuck it, Im going to convert those to HID and stick them in my heads, fogs, tails, double heads, and my butt so I make a halo while shitting

It would be like a holy shit, and maybe one around my penis for that illuminating experience a girl has hahahaahahahaah
Quote:
"Through this inscription I wish to enter my dying protest against what is called the Democratic party. I have watched it closely since the days of Jackson, and know that all the misfortunes of our nation has come to it though this so-called party. Therefore beware this party of TREASON." -Nathaniel Grigsby (1890)
Quote:
"How many times is Biden gonna say something stupid?" -Barack Obama (378 gaffes and counting!)
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  #10  
Old 07-09-2011, 02:31 AM
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I will try that tomorrow if they will let me (the car is at the shop). What they told me is the previous owner had beaten on the pcm. It does look like someone was hammering a screwdriver into it for some idiotic reason. Anyway they said the cracked casing on the pcm could have let water in and shorted the CTM. They said there diagnostic computer could only comunicate with the pcm when the CTM was diabled and they showed a programing fault in the ctm. Does that sound right?
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:41 AM
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Was the PCM beaten up before you brought it to them? Do any marks on it look fresh and shiny?

They are full of crap that water got into it and did anything, because the circuit board is 'potted' (once fully assembled it is dipped in a rubbery goop that locks water out and protects it from vibration).

"Programming faults" do not cause this problem or any interference with the PCM. Another lie. Get it back from them, don't pay them anything, and fix it yourself (even if it needs a new PCM its nothing you can't handle installing). They are either shady or clueless (or both).
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"Ever had one of those days where you want to light someone's face on fire and try to put it out with a fork?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Texxan View Post
fuck it, Im going to convert those to HID and stick them in my heads, fogs, tails, double heads, and my butt so I make a halo while shitting

It would be like a holy shit, and maybe one around my penis for that illuminating experience a girl has hahahaahahahaah
Quote:
"Through this inscription I wish to enter my dying protest against what is called the Democratic party. I have watched it closely since the days of Jackson, and know that all the misfortunes of our nation has come to it though this so-called party. Therefore beware this party of TREASON." -Nathaniel Grigsby (1890)
Quote:
"How many times is Biden gonna say something stupid?" -Barack Obama (378 gaffes and counting!)
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:19 AM
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basically, "no bus" means one of the computers ain't talking to the others like it should....

and if yer truck won't start..it means yer "gonna take the bus" for trips now

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Old 07-09-2011, 04:06 AM
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On 99's, no-bus is a common problem.(do a search). Yes the factory information says to check grounds but the common fix has been to get a new PCM
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:20 AM
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On 99's, no-bus is a common problem.(do a search). Yes the factory information says to check grounds but the common fix has been to get a new PCM
Yes it is a common problem, and I already explained the known issue that causes it. Why spend $300 on a new PCM when a $30 sensor could be to blame. Shotgun mechanics is a lousy (and expensive) way to do things. You don't just throw parts at it, you have to figure out what the problem is.
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Quote:
"Ever had one of those days where you want to light someone's face on fire and try to put it out with a fork?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Texxan View Post
fuck it, Im going to convert those to HID and stick them in my heads, fogs, tails, double heads, and my butt so I make a halo while shitting

It would be like a holy shit, and maybe one around my penis for that illuminating experience a girl has hahahaahahahaah
Quote:
"Through this inscription I wish to enter my dying protest against what is called the Democratic party. I have watched it closely since the days of Jackson, and know that all the misfortunes of our nation has come to it though this so-called party. Therefore beware this party of TREASON." -Nathaniel Grigsby (1890)
Quote:
"How many times is Biden gonna say something stupid?" -Barack Obama (378 gaffes and counting!)
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Old 07-10-2011, 12:58 PM
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Not shotgunning. Out of the many post I've seen on this, I don't believ I have seen any that indicated other that other than PCM fixed it (including a coworker and the person I sold my original 99 PCM to)
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