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Ujoints and CV joints

16K views 48 replies 8 participants last post by  Newbie 
#1 ·
for my truck - is it possible to rebuild the cv joints on the front differential or do I have to buy the entire assembly (wondering about both sides).
also - is there a way to disengage the front driveshaft to troubleshoot a vibrstion? When I let off the gas, it feels like there is slack in a ujoint somewhere. I just replaced the ujoints on the rear driveshaft, I want to inspect the joints mentioned above.
 
#2 ·
sounds like your front drive shaft is bad. i just had to replace mine not long ago too. it made a lot of noise when i let off the gas and while slowing down. the stock ones came with a crappy CV joint on one side (which fails) and a U-joint on the other. i bought a new one from NAPA with both ends U-joints and it's much better. should last the rest of the trucks life now.
 
#3 ·
is there a way to check the cv joint on the front driveshaft without removing it? I am thinking that this where I am getting the vibration. If I could raise all 4 tires I would put it in drive a observe the shaft in motion - but all 4 wheels need to be off the ground, correct? Is that joint serviceable?
 
#4 ·
The way to test them is driving with all 4 tires off the ground, you apply the brake, then put vise-grips on the flex line so the brake on that tire stays on, then start driving. No more vibration? Found your weak link.

U-joints are easy to diagnose, because you can physically grab them, and watch/feel the play/seizure if there is any. With CV axles, its either above, or you tear down your front end.
 
#6 ·
The CV joint is NOT serviceable. The whole shaft needs to be replaced which isn't hard to do. It just unbolts out. If you can get a new double U-Joint model go for that because it won't wear out as fast as the CV. The only way to really test it is just to check for play in the shaft. It should be tight and not wobble much when you push it in any direction. Another sign of it being bad is if the boot is torn on the CV end because that means dirt and junk is getting up in there and ruining the joint. There is a more detailed thread on here somewhere with pics of what to look for. I'll see if I can find it. I think I posted in it.
 
#7 ·
Yes, I was afraid that it won't be servicable. I have read mixed reviews on changing the configuration of the joint - This one lasted for about 200k so I don't expect the truck will make it another 200k - at least not in my ownership. The sickening thing is - a '02 Dakota Quad cab Sport 4x4 is only going for about $4000.00 around here - so there is no point in trying to sell it. Hard to believe that a nice truck like that does not hold any value.
There doesnt seem to be any play in the joints on the shaft when pushing up an down but there is at least 1/4-1/2 of play when rotating it - sometimes you can feel that slack when you left off the gas and step on it.
I will try to find more info on it as well, I just haven't had much luck over the last few days.
Thanks for the help!
 
#12 ·
Thanks for the good news. Both front hubs are new(er) driver's side 9 months, passenger side 12 months. While I agree that the hubs are probably not the highest quality - the symptoms I have now are not the same as they were when the hubs were going bad. The original hubs were howling and pronounced when moving the sterring wheel from one side to the next. The symptoms I have now is a vibration under the truck - just like when my rear driveshaft ujoints were going bad. I just replaced those back in October - I tried to move the joints looking for play but there doesn't seem to be any. and the truck shakes when applying the brakes.
I am wondering about the following -
control arm bushings (originals)
tie rod ends - inner and outer (driver's side outer is new - rest is original)
ball joints - upper and lower (passenger side lower is new - rest is original)
shocks - I believe all are original
swaybar bushings - I believe are original
axles - originals.
I guess there is also the chance that it could be front or rear diff issues - or rear axles?
Can anyone tell me what they think may be the most possible issue based on my symptoms?
 
#13 ·
bushings and ball joints aren't going to make this type of vibration issue. it has to be something that is also in motion and "off" somehow causing the wobble and vibration. you say it happens when applying the brakes? if it's only when braking then it's the brake rotors, but if it's all the time while driving them it's drive train or the wheels themselves.

have the front cv axles looked at, and the wheels rotated and balanced if they haven't been for a while. the rear axles aren't going to vibrate, as they don't wear out themselves, just the bearings which would howl or grind. the diffs would also howl and grind, no vibrate so much.
 
#14 ·
Yes - it happens when applying the brakes which does feel like warped rotors but the vibration that I am getting from underneath the floorboard is noticable at low revs and speeds like 50-55kms, 60-65kms and 70-75kms. front brakes are fairly new - last August, again - not high quality parts but they would not because the driveline vibration - I wouldn't think.

The tires were installed and balanced last November - I am beginning to think it may be a front axle even though the boots look to be in good shape and I do not feel any play in them when I try to move them by hand.
This weekend, I think I will raise the rear end and look at the rear driveshaft while it is in gear, as well as rotate the tires to eliminate those posibilities.
So on a 4x4, is it ok to just raise the rear tires and put it in drive? I ask because the front driveshaft spins as well - I think.
Thanks for the help!
 
#15 ·
do not just raise the rear on a 4wd and put the truck in drive especially if you have an electronic shift transfer case or all wheel drive if its all wheel drive and the rear wheels are off the ground it will start spinning the front tires and the truck will drive itself off the jack stands and run you over. if the truck has a carrier bearing i would check that to make sure it is not bad and causing the problem
 
#16 ·
I'll bet that the front axle shafts are going bad as well as the stub shaft they ride on in the differential.

The axle shafts just slide over the splined output of the diff so over time they wear and become quite sloppy. This could be what you're feeling.

The axle shafts can be had VERY reasonably at rockauto (get the NEW, not reman) and the stub shafts in the diff are dealer only. I think I did both sides axles and stubs for around $200, maybe 250.
 
#17 ·
I think you have nailed it. Today I was able to recreate the issue by turning the wheel to the left. It just started making a howl while driving. When I swerved to the right, the noise disappeared. So what is my next step - to buy a new axle (or both sides) and pull the old ones out? The boots all look good - not torn.
 
#18 ·
The boots don't have to be torn for the CV's to be bad, but many times they are. It's best to always replace both axles at the same time so you know that they are in the same condition. If one is going out now then the other is most likely soon to follow anyway so just do them both. Like caulk04 said, get new if you can because the remanned ones often are not so great and could fail again sooner. After they get reconditioned so many times they just get too worn out and can be sloppy from the start. Check out rockauto.com and get some on order, unless you can't wait and just go to a local parts store. The stub shafts are probably ok but check them out before you go through all the work. They just unbolt from the stubs and pop out, but here is a video to help. youtube is your friend :)
 
#19 ·
So I will need to purchase the half shafts as well as the "intermediate" shafts shown in the link?
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php

Should I also replace the axle bearings and seals? I went underneath and checked for movement in the axles - They both had slight in/out movement but the driver's side cv joint could easily be moved up and down - I would say that is where my issue is coming from. Unfortunately, the only way to confirm is to haul it out, correct?
 
#20 · (Edited)
If the boot is ripped at the rzeppa on the front shaft than it is 95% without a doubt shot, if you want grab the shaft and see if you have any movement in it at the rzeppa end (transfercase side).

Unless a front axle is litterally slapping around they very very rarely make any vibration.

The other thing is on the internet it's hard to even think you are going to get ANYWHERE NEAR a possible right answer without LOTS of detail about a vibration, when it starts ____ does it get better or worse at ___ or by going ___ or slower than ____

You could be wasting all your money and time with what little info you explained.

.
 
#21 ·
very true with what he said, which is why in the beginning it was thought to be the front drive shaft because that is what normally makes that type of vibrations. generally when a cv-axle goes bad it doesn't cause a vibration like supershafts said, but just a clunking noise when turning. while going straight the shaft isn't using the joint and so it usually doesn't make any noise unless it's practically falling apart. I would still bet that your front drive shaft is the culprit here. i know when mine went bad it did not seem to have much play in the cv-joint so i also wrote it off saying it must be something else, however i couldn't find anything else and all the evidence pointed to the DS. after changing that it was fine. some things you can't really tell until you remove them.
 
#22 ·
Hey Guys,
I appreciate the feedback. Before I update, I do recognize that if I took it to a shop and had it put on a lift, for probably 0.5hrs labor, I could probably find out for sure. I spent the last week setting up a camera at various locations under the truck - focussing on the driver's side axle, passenger side axle, and rear driveshaft at the differential. Thinking I would easily spot a bad joint - wasn't as easy as I thought - some due to lighting and some due to the fact that if there is a spot on the shaft that was slighty different (light a grease mark or whatever), I couldn't tell if it was out of round or just that spot throwing me off. However, I am pretty sure that there no issues with the axles. I can move the driver's side axle slightly up and down where it enters the front diff (worn stub shaft?) but that's all.
And I agree about the joints. I thought my rear ujoints were good but found the were not after getting the driveshaft out.

All my boots are clean and not torn - the vibration seems to appear at low revs - at the beginning of a gear change - between 60 - 70kmh - 75 - 85kmh. Anyway, I will update when anything new comes up.
 
#23 ·
The boot at the rzeppa isn't ripped ? you checked it with your finger and found no rips in it.
If the front shaft has any movement other than front to back (the slip yoke at the diff side) it is your problem...
As little as .005 will make a vibration, a driveshaft is a balanced precision piece even though many do not understand that and simply look at it as a tube that connects the trans to the diff.
If you can move it side to side or up and down it's bad, if you can hold the rzeppa and twist the shaft back and fourth while holding the rzerppa or joint end still you need a rzeppa or joint they are bad.

. The rzeppa is a great design that is misunderstood even in some parts of the off-road world because it is being used wrong. If the boots aren't ripped the rzeppa doesn't go bad, i would find it odd that boot isn't ripped if you have more than 100k miles on it that is usually the time rubber gives out and then it's all a matter of how long before all the particular grease is expelled.
 
#26 ·
yeah i also recently had to replace a rear shaft U-joint. at first it was only a small vibration and i was not sure what it was. i checked the joints and at the time it seemed like they were fine. not long after the vibration got much worse and i was afraid to drive over 50mph because it would shake a lot. i got back under there and the U-joint at the rear diff was about to fall out so i replaced it on the spot. just goes to show that sometimes while mounted on the truck the joints feel fine because they are tight and affixed but really they are bad inside. it could have been bad if i dropped the shaft while driving.
 
#30 ·
Ok, does it sound abnormal or does it sound normal given the truck's age and mileage? Based on the video, would you say that it appears that the ujoint might be bad? I had just installed it in November but I do recall that the joints movements were pretty tight compared to the one I installed on the other end of the drive shaft. Thanks for your help!
 
#33 ·
That grinding noise you hear is completely normal when shifting into drive or reverse. My truck has done the same since I bought it 4 years ago at 45k miles, and put 100k miles on it since. Dunno what your real problem could be, when my CV shafts were wearing out, they would show allot of slop when shifting into drive or reverse, and vibrate like an out of balanced tire at 70mph.
 
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