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What's a good easy engine swap for a 4.7L

104K views 73 replies 24 participants last post by  MrDurangoTn 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'm looking to replace a first Gen 4.7L out of a 2000 Durango. I've not found anyone local that will do the 5.7L swap. Is the 2000 5.9L RT swap an option or is any other swap with minimal wiring issues?
 
#4 ·
If you must do a swap then go with a 6.1L! It will bolt in just like any 5.7L ... just bigger.

But you could build a 4.7L to make more HP then a mildly built HEMI for less then it would cost to drop in a stock HEMI/PCM/HARNES/CUSTOM BRACKETS... The 4.7L would be a direct bolt in PLUG & PLAY swap as well.

Yeah once you have a HEMI you would have more potential... I will not argue that. But For about the same amount of money it would cost to drop in a stock HEMI you could build a 375-400HP 4.7L...

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 
#5 ·
If you must do a swap then go with a 6.1L! It will bolt in just like any 5.7L ... just bigger.
Except the programming issue and it being 3-4x more than a 5.7L.

But you could build a 4.7L to make more HP then a mildly built HEMI for less then it would cost to drop in a stock HEMI/PCM/HARNES/CUSTOM BRACKETS... The 4.7L would be a direct bolt in PLUG & PLAY swap as well.

Yeah once you have a HEMI you would have more potential... I will not argue that. But For about the same amount of money it would cost to drop in a stock HEMI you could build a 375-400HP 4.7L...
He said he was looking to replace the 4.7L, not upgrade it. ;)
 
#6 · (Edited)
And I agreed that if he where to upgrade it why sell yourself short with a 5.7L when you could just put in a 6.1L... Go big or go home! I mean if your going to go through all the trouble with an ENGINE/PCM/HARNESS transplant then why go with a smaller 5.7L? The 6.1L is the better of the two and they will take the same amount of time and extensive work to complete.



Now I only brought up building his current 4.7L because he could EASILY make HEMI HP for less then a HEMI SWAP and it would be a DIRECT SWAP "PLUG & PLAY" engine... And he could make even MORE then HEMI HP with a good build up . When you did your swap there was little to nothing that could be done to the 4.7L... So a HEMI swap was a valid alternative and the cost where justified... but that's not the case today and many people dont know whats available for the 4.7L engine... so they just assume nothing can be done.

FYI: There is NO programing issue with the 2000 4.7L... SCT can handle EVERYTHING needed to build a 4.7L to what ever HP level your looking for. Its no longer limited to the factory PCM or a worthless "FLASH" that never workes... SCT can adjust your engine for N/A or Supercharged... So again, PCM issues with the 4.7L are in the past and have been for quite a while.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 
#11 ·
Last time i checked the price of a 6.1 was about $2000 more then the price of a 5.7 with all accessories, harness and comp. Go with the 5.7. Granted if your not wanting to build hp and go fast then go with the 4.7. Of coarse if cost is an issue then deffantly go with a stock 4.7 or 5.9
LOL :jester: Now that's FUNNY! My current N/A 4.7L will leave most HEMI's way behind...And thats just with bolt on's. Never mind building one.



But I'm willing to bet this will make more HP for less money then a HEMI SWAP! And it will be cheaper!

And before somone try's to quote what the original question was... I will quote it again to save you time:

What's a good easy engine swap for a 4.7L
And I say the answer to that is build another 4.7L!

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 
#12 ·
LOL :jester: Now that's FUNNY! My current N/A 4.7L will leave most HEMI's way behind...And thats just with bolt on's. Never mind building one.



But I'm willing to bet this will make more HP for less money then a HEMI SWAP! And it will be allot cheaper!

And before somone try's to quote what the original question was... I will quote it again to save you time:



And I say the answer to that is build another 4.7L!

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
Did you factor in the cost of grinding off that blue oval? :jester: :nana:
 
#21 · (Edited)
Im going to explain this as best as possible. I have seen a built hemi and have seen the durability of a built hemi. The 4.7 to me as well as some others is still unprooven in terms of high horsepower durability. I am aware of the 4.7L design for its bottom end and i have no doubt that it could withstand alot of abuse. But until i have seen severl High HP 4.7L engines running down the strip I dont want to be one of the test mules.

Nick I love what you are doing for the 4.7 with the aftermarket scene as far as intakes, cam, head and bottom end accessories. I think it would be really cool to have a well built 4.7. But for people like me that enjoy building/doing our own engine work/fabricating it is alot cheaper to swap in a hemi for the 115hp increase then swapping cams in a 4.7. In next year it may even be cheaper for some years to swap a hemi in then it used to be as well. I have my own engine swap in the planning and am keeping most of the deatils to myself and a few selected individuals on what is going to take place. Anyways if you consider that a decent set of cams is going to run around going to run around $675.00 plus lash caps $93.39 plus you would need to buy a tuner/data logging equipment your looking at $844.00 you now have $1612.39innvoled in changing the cams out. Now if you consider that your only going to see on average less then 50hp for a cam swap and you the average price of a hemi is around $2000.00 and you break it down to dollar/hp. So for the 4.7 with cam swap equates to $32.25/hp for a do-it yourself Hemi swap $17.39/hp.

Granted your down time may be longer but your hp/$ gain is much cheapier. All these numbers are ones that i have run when deciding on what i wanted to do in terms of engine performance and may not represent those for different years of trucks or individuals.

Im not bashing anybody on what they decide to do with their 4.7 but for what my personal goals are it is more economical for me to do a engine swap then it is to build the 4.7. Now if you were to stroke the hemi then of course it would be cheaper to build a 4.7L but we still need to see the durability of the engine under high horespower applications.
 
#23 ·
unless you are going all out with the engine..anything higher than the HO cams...you wont see the full potential

now engine swapping...thats one thing...but when dealing with the new computer wiring...thats another...now thankfully for those that want to do a hemi swap in an 02 or older dak...they have josh to look to for answers because he has literally done all the leg work. i alone was thinking of doing a hemi swap and josh provided many useful answers.

as air ram said...it will depend on what the original poster whats...will he be
doing the work? or will a shop? is he even aware of the things avail for the 4.7?
both engines are great and both have the potential for great numbers...as they say...you have to pay to play.....but you can play smart and still have money

now i alone love fabricating things myself....i have done my own entire brake swap to the viper srt10 brakes...as well as other things...an engine swap isnt really fabricating...you are only doing the mounts...unless you plan to do a full custom exhaust

now as you have stated...your personal goals...we dont know what mrr1hemitonga's goals are. now what josh could do is post what all mods he has done and give the guy and idea if its what he wants and air riam can post a list of what he has done.

now remember that air rams QC is doing 9.49's in the 1/8...in a dak...you could see 9's easy...i dont even know if josh has any official numbers on his though it would be nice to see









FYI... a STOCK HEMI puts out 250-260 RWHP... A stock 4.7L Puts out 175-185RWHP... Thats a whopping 75RWHO... I dont know what DYNO's you guys have been going too but thats what it is... Dodge Claims 100+More HP... but a DYNO puts it at a 75RWHP difference... certainly NOT a 115RWHP difference.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
i think part of the hemi's increase in power to the ground (other than the fact that it has more power) is the increased line pressure the tranny has..even though its the same tranny....wonder what a 4.7 could do with the same line pressures
 
#22 · (Edited)
FYI...
A STOCK HEMI puts out 250-260 RWHP...
A stock 4.7L Puts out 175-185RWHP...
That's a whopping 75RWHP... NOT 100+

I don't know what DYNO's some of you guys have been going too but that's what it is... Dodge Claims 100+More HP... but a DYNO puts it at a 75RWHP difference... certainly NOT a 115RWHP difference as many continue to repeat as fact.

Now 75HP is still a big gap, but its not hard to cover 75HP with the right parts.

And again, you need to look at the TOTAL cost to get HEMI HP into your truck... And be honest with yourself about it. Say you get a killer deal on a 5.7L... you will also need a PCM/WIRE HARNESS/TORQUE CONVERTER & THEN you need to add up the cost of having it installed, Wiring the engine harness and under the dash, installing the engine and fabbing up custom engine mounts. The cost don't just stop at buying the parts.

I think its a shame at some of the guys who actually have swapped HEMI's under their hood completely OVER SIMPLIFY the project. I have spoken to several who have taken on the task over the phone and they all seem to agree that its a much bigger project then they had anticipated. With that it cost them more money they they had prepared for.

I highly doubt you could stick a HEMI under your hood and have it running 100% for less then 5500 bucks. Sure some of these guys will lead you to believe that.... but I bet if they added up ALL their receipts they would have WELL over that amount into their project... KOOL as heck YES... CHEAP no way!


SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 
#28 ·
I will guarnatee you that 95% of anyone who is looking to do this type of mod will have neither your skills, abilitys, tools nor experience... so naturally it will cost you a fraction of what it cost the average guy. Your not average... so although your opinion is greatly valuable... your projected cost to somone who has to pay to have it done will be FAR over what you paid.

Again, another point of OVER SIMPLIFYING... What you paid to complete the task is NOT going to be the same for somone who lacks your abilitys... and they will have to pay to have the project done.

Please dont turn this into us against you... its not about that at all. I know of one Ram owner who set off on this project over a year ago... his truck is still parked on the side of his gurage... Not running and way over your projected budget. Its alot easier said then done.

So my only request is that you shoot straight when your suggesting this swap. In my opinion you have been less then candid with the cost... and NOT your cost.. but the cost the average person could look forward to which we both know would be WAY more then what you paid. You have done this swap... but yours is not even running 100%... things like that... I do have an issue with.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 
#29 ·
I do completely agree with you on that aspect. Since it wasn't clarified who would be doing the swap, I assumed it would be someone like you and I who have the knowledge and ability to do it. I think we agree on the same thing, but we weren't clear as to whom would be doing the work.
 
#35 ·
the race version did...but there is also talk that when dodge used the detuned version for the street...they didnt change the 425hp rating

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hemi/hemi.html


but this can be tru for any run of the mill freak...there have been srt4 from the factory floor put on a dyno and run over 270hp
 
#36 ·
I'm looking to replace a first Gen 4.7L out of a 2000 Durango. I've not found anyone local that will do the 5.7L swap. Is the 2000 5.9L RT swap an option or any other swap with minimal wiring issues?


Josh come on bro. YOU know perfectly well that while a HEMI swap sounds cool 90% of the people out there have neither the means, skill or knowledge or combination of the three to start see through or complete such a swap. Now you and another 10% of people can do it in their garage farm shop etc but your average guy living in a apartament cant do it and probably doesnt have the money to pay someone to do it. lets say it took you 80 hours to do the swap. Now average a shop charges 80$ a hour and lets say they already know how to do the swap and they arent using you as a test mule.
so 80x80=6400. Thats labor alone. lets even half that and say 40 hours ( doubtful) thats still 3200$ for labor that doesnt include parts of any kind.
The OP wanted to know
what woudl be the easiest swap a hemi or a 5.9. Since he is obviously looking to have it done by someone a Hemi swap even a 5.9 swap is basically out of the question IMO. the easiest way to get the truck on the road is to install a 4.7. Now Air Ram can get some good HP out of his 4.7 and since the OP is swapping motors he can easily buy a 4.7 and make some decent HP. Even if he only does bolt on stuff he will be money ahead.

Now I really respect you for taking the challenge of installing a hemi in your truck. While you have the talent for it I can bet you that while you can have 5000 people lined up willing to do the swap 4800 of them wouldnt even know where to start
personally like I said I prefer to make more HP with a smaller motor and beat people up that way than to simply throw a huge honkin motor in there.
 
#37 ·
he did say easy swap... I think that rules out just about everything.

I'll let you guys in on something that I've been throwing around, I would LOVE to do a hemi swap, it however requires alot more downtime then I want to have and requires alot of fab.

At this point I am thinking about going with a 5.9 or 5.2. Why not? They are very easy to come by, have been proven time and time again, and have cheap parts. They came stock in dakotas so you won't have as much trouble with mounts, wiring, oil pan... well anything. Why not? I'm sure that I could swap in a 360 with a few bolt ons plus a simple blower kit and have alot of fun for far under 5K. Then I have the platform to go crazy if I then decide to do so.

I know that people will say just to sell the truck and buy an R/T but I don't want to do that, I want MY truck. Also swapping a 5.9 motor into my truck would probably be alot easier then swapping a 5 speed into an R/T.
 
#39 ·
At this point I am thinking about going with a 5.9 or 5.2. Why not? They are very easy to come by, have been proven time and time again, and have cheap parts. They came stock in dakotas so you won't have as much trouble with mounts, wiring, oil pan... well anything. Why not? I'm sure that I could swap in a 360 with a few bolt ons plus a simple blower kit and have alot of fun for far under 5K. Then I have the platform to go crazy if I then decide to do so.

I know that people will say just to sell the truck and buy an R/T but I don't want to do that, I want MY truck. Also swapping a 5.9 motor into my truck would probably be alot easier then swapping a 5 speed into an R/T.
I'll be honest with you, swapping out your 4.7L for a 5.2L would be the dumbest swap I've ever seen done. Doing a 5.9L wouldn't be as bad, but I wouldn't consider it a very smart swap by any means.

Stick with what you have and build it up, or going with a Hemi if you're going to do a swap.
 
#40 ·
Not necessarily. HOs use(d) the JTEC PCM. If the swap is into a NGC PCM'd vehicle you would need a complete teardown to R&R the crank reluctor ring. The rings are different between the two PCM's. JTEC uses a 16 tooth and NGC uses a 32 tooth. The cam ring is different as well.

However, all the wiring is the same. I used an HO for my buildup.

As far as what is a better swap, a new Hemi or 4.7? 6 here or half a dozen there, IMO. Lots of pros and cons to either. Pushrod vs OHC. Bedplate on the 4.7, I don't know about the Hemi. No replacement for displacement? Better heads on the Hemi. Aftermarket support; bummer on the 4.7 as almost none whatsoever. Almost nothing about my 4.7 build was off the shelf. The limiting factor I've found so far in the 4.7 is the intake manifold. I'm sure there's lots of room to debate the engines.

That being said, I have traction problems as it is, I suppose a spooled Hemi would have compounded it even more.

For a Hemi swap using MPP's crate engine, you can use the Mopar Performance programmable EMS that is OEM'd by AEM.
 
#41 ·
How much of a bitch or how hard is it to change the rings?

My thoughts were using a HO as a base and building up that then dropping it into my truck. Pro's minimal wiring, bolts right in, etc..

Cons=same ones everyone else mentioned.


Mostly i like the idea of building up on a better base. I.E. forged internals, better heads
 
#42 ·
What PCM is in your truck? Didn't the 02's get the JTEC? If it is a JTEC, then you can just swap. Otherwise, if you have a NGC PCM the crank has to come completely out to swap the ring.

The HO is a good base. That is what I started with for the forged crank. If I did it now, I'd search out one of the new 4.7's to play with. I think the head design and manifold are supposedly improved.

I think the 4.7 loves boost. A build and turbo will give gobs of power. That being said, if I was going to do a N/A buildup, I'd consider the Hemi for the cubes.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Pretty sure my truck is NGC. Its an 02, three plug PCM.

I would be tearing down a HO completely then building it up anyway. Thinking about doing a junkyard HO rebuild.

The newer 4.7 heads look cool, but ignition and computer seem like the limiting factor in the swap. How would you set up the dual plugs?

That is without changing pcm....if possible
 
#48 ·
Ok so I have a JTEC, got it. That does make sense after re-reading some other threads....

So essentially all that would be needed to swap would be to change the rings, and then just plug it in. A flash would be in order too, SCT.
 
#54 ·
Assumptions :
Average mechanical skills,
doing you're own work,
using your own/friends tools,
$$$ ? (depends on amount/type of work)


How possible is it to drop an 08+ 4.7L into a 2001 Dak with 4.7L in it?

I've read up on lot's of swap threads, and done some research on upgrades, and I don't race too often or even go to the strip. I do however like to impress my friends now and then. I've thought about the hemi (both 5.7 and 6.1), I've looked at the HO 4.7, the 5.9... But I keep coming back to this one. All the upgrades to 4.7 seem better for my needs, but my motor/tranny have 115k+ miles on em (100k of which have unknown maintenance records). So I wanted to replace with something less aged.
 
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#57 ·
The hardest part would probably be actually finding an 08 engine that is in your price range. I bet a slightly used one will be pretty hard to come by right now. But in a year or so I bet ya can pick one up for a grand or less easy. I'm sure the PCM will have to be changed and possibly a few small things would have to be done but I doubt it would be too hard to do. I don't know a whole lot about the new 4.7 though and how much it is different besides of the dual plugs and internal things. Correct me if I'm wrong guys
 
#55 · (Edited)
it may be cheaper to pull your motor or find one same tear and rebuild it, install some ported heads,cams,intake,and throttlebody, I know there is a difference in pcm's, and some of the sensors, and the wireing harness, 08 has 16 plugs. but if its something you really want to do then do all the research you can. it might not be that bad. im sure someone will chime in.
 
#58 ·
Pic of coil

Here is the pic of the 08 4.7 coil. I dont believe it would make a difference in having 16 sparkers cause I believe the connector is the same and the coils have two outs.

So in other words unless the cam is not in a totally different position, as well as the head bolts. I will be willing to bet the 2 plug per cylinder head swap is as easy as finding the heads and putting them on.

I would however like to know the differences in head design as far as runners, combustion chambers, size of valves etc.
 

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#59 ·
I would like to see Air ram put a set of 08 heads on a non HO engine w/the aluminum intake to see how she runs.
 
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