CCD vs. PCI Bus question

[Israel]

First off, let me apologize for bringing a grand cherokee question to a dak-durango forum, but as I've planned out my own hemi swap, it's become obvious that this is the most knowlegable forum on 4.7 to 5.7 hemi swaps around.

Let me start with what I know. I know the hemi will bolt right up to my transmission. I know I want a 2003 harness and ECU since I have a floor mounted t-case shifter. I know I can build the motor mounts. I've measured and remeasured the engine bay and I'm fairly certain (getting away from the "knows") the motor will fit with no or very little trouble, certainly nothing that would be a show stopper. I'm not worried about plumbing since that can be worked around. I know the hemi ecu uses a PCI Bus version.

What I don't know is what Bus version my grand cherokee uses. Does anyone know what it would be or how I could find out? Anything that could point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated!

[modain]

Jeep GCs 1999-2004 are PCI. You're good.

[Israel]

Beautiful! Thanks!

[Israel]

Here's another one, if I may:

My 2000 Grand Cherokee has a JTEC ECU and the Hemi motor I picked up has a NGC ECU. It seems that the most well documented swaps like HemiDak and DontShoot's also started out with JTEC computers. I don't recall much talk about incompatibility issues between the ECU and other modules, so does this mean I should be fine in that area too?

[DontShoot67]

Yes you will be fine. All the modules talk the same language. ABS might be an issue. I had trouble because of a VIN mismatch. Still haven't solved it, but only because I haven't gotten around to doing it.

[Israel]

Thanks!

By the way, I'm reading through your swap right now for the third time. I seem to pick up something new each time. Thanks for taking the time to do that for the benefit of the rest of us!

[DontShoot67]

My pleasure! Let us know how it's going!

[greasemonkey]

I just had a dealership service center tell me there's absolutely no way to make an '03 Hemi work in the '00 Durango because of the Bus mismatch, that was a little frustrating to hear after seeing a few done on here :)

[bogieboy]

If you know its been done, then why worry? I would tell that dealer to blow it out his ass.....cuz he doesn't know what he's talking about.....

[greasemonkey]

I'm not worried about it, I just thought it was funny that they'd say that there's absolutely no way it would work instead of asking if I knew any more about how it might work or if I knew of any functioning examples.

That particular dealership is really, really good at working on somewhat stock vehicles but apparently the Chrysler school doesn't teach them how to do swaps :)

[Israel]

I just had a dealership service center tell me there's absolutely no way to make an '03 Hemi work in the '00 Durango because of the Bus mismatch, that was a little frustrating to hear after seeing a few done on here :)

We must have the same dealership. I called last week about having my vehicles VIN progammed into the Hemi's ECU so I could avoid the "VIN mismatch" code from the ABS module and they told me they couldn't do it because certain features wouldn't work afterwards. Strangely, they couldn't tell me what those features were.

[modain]

I just had a dealership service center tell me there's absolutely no way to make an '03 Hemi work in the '00 Durango because of the Bus mismatch, that was a little frustrating to hear after seeing a few done on here :)
IDK... HemiDak has put a 2003 Hemi engine (and PCM) into his 2000 Dakota. It can be done.

[greasemonkey]

We must have the same dealership. I called last week about having my vehicles VIN progammed into the Hemi's ECU so I could avoid the "VIN mismatch" code from the ABS module and they told me they couldn't do it because certain features wouldn't work afterwards. Strangely, they couldn't tell me what those features were.

Yep, they told me both "nothing will communicate at all" and "certain features won't work". Nothing as in, the fuse box...or the PCI guages I'm using from an '01 PCI durango...

In the interest of not wanting to pick a fight with them because they're my new dealership, I let it go, plan to take part numbers in there to order parts and drive the thing in there so they can test drive it and tell me what they think.

The bailout/obamanomics takeover shut down my local dodge dealership that was the absolute best vehicle dealership I've ever been to. So these guys are my next option.

[Israel]

I think I've given up on getting help from dealerships. I had the one dealership tell me they couldn't do it due to features that may not work afterwards, another said they won't touch it because it's illegal to put a larger motor in a vehicle newer than 1999, and the third said they might be able to do it, but it would cost at least 100.00.

Maybe B&G or HotwireAuto would be easier.

[modain]

another said they won't touch it because it's illegal to put a larger motor in a vehicle newer than 1999

Is this a Utah law, or something? I know in California it's legal to put a larger engine into a vehicle as long as the engine is produced for that class of vehicle, and all the current emissions components (for that engine) are installed.

The Dakota, Durango, and Ram all classify as a light duty truck. All engines used between them are eligible for swapping. One important thing we have to remember is if we put a newer engine into an older truck the emissions devices for the newer engine must also be installed. So, if I put a 2003 Hemi into a 1995 Dakota I'm supposed to make it comply with the OBDII-2 regulation that went into effect for 1996 model year vehicles.

Check your laws, make sure that dealer isn't blowing smoke somewhere...

[greasemonkey]

Modain, you're right for CA, that's what I'm doing with the '00 Durango. I talked with our local ref that's going to be the one inspecting it, he said it has to pass smog as (in my case) an '03 Ram. The bigger engine is okay on the grounds that the newer engine has a more advance emissions system.

I'm sure that was a lot of FUD from the dealerships, like I'm getting from this new place. My old dealership would ask me 'how?' or say they didn't know instead of a smug, pretentious 'no' when I brought something up that they didn't know.

[This name is al]

You guys should move to Florida... we can put any engine into any vehicle w/o the government being involved. Let's see... the ability to do what you want with your private property... what's that called again... oh, I almost forgot, it's freedom!

Thanks for the info on the bus. I'm still looking into a Hemi swap for my '98.

[modain]

But Florida has big bugs and humidity, something I'm not familiar with in CA. :jester:

[This name is al]

LOL I can spray the bugs and air condition my garage (with R12 just because I can ;))... Can't say the same for the politicians, although we're working to make our congressman eligible for job training come 2010 since he will be out of a job.

[greasemonkey]

Let's see... the ability to do what you want with your private property... what's that called again... oh, I almost forgot, it's freedom!

It must be nice to live in the United States...this is like a separate country over here, where hippies and rhetorical slogans triumph over history, facts and the application of common sense.

I've even talked to a smog ref talking to him about something I wanted to do with a late 80's truck that would get substantially better mileage and improve emissions...he was PISSED at the State regs he had to enforce.

[Israel]

Is this a Utah law, or something? I know in California it's legal to put a larger engine into a vehicle as long as the engine is produced for that class of vehicle, and all the current emissions components (for that engine) are installed.

The Dakota, Durango, and Ram all classify as a light duty truck. All engines used between them are eligible for swapping. One important thing we have to remember is if we put a newer engine into an older truck the emissions devices for the newer engine must also be installed. So, if I put a 2003 Hemi into a 1995 Dakota I'm supposed to make it comply with the OBDII-2 regulation that went into effect for 1996 model year vehicles.

Check your laws, make sure that dealer isn't blowing smoke somewhere...

The dealer had no idea what he was talking about. I called the main office in charge of emissions in my county and they informed me that it was perfectly legal as long as all the original emissions equipment from my Jeep was functional. He said a problem commonly ran into was if the donor motor and computer do not use an EGR, but the vehicle receiving the swap did. The new computer would have no way to control the EGR, even if one was fabbed in place.

Not a problem in my case.

[Israel]

Here's an update for those who are interested:

Got the 4.7 out today. Starting on the motor mounts and hoping to have the Hemi bolted to the tranny and new mounts by next weekend.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/TsiTalons_photos/Hemi%20Swap/Emptybay.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h237/TsiTalons_photos/Hemi%20Swap/Oldmotor.jpg

[stashu7408]

sorry to hijack, but when did dakotas switch over from ccd to pci? and what's the difference?

[daddyododge]

Having abs experience in a Dodge dealership, Amismatch code is caused when abs and pcm modules do not have the same vin number. Swapping pcm's to make the hemi project run is fine for the hemi but because the abs doesn't see the same vin it shuts down thinking there's a glitch. The fix for this in a standard truck would be to replace the abs module and reprogram it to the correct vin. What i'm not sure is if it would except the vin of the newly installed pcm to operate the hemi. Once a vin is in the module it can't be erased or reprogramed. A new abs module will have to be installed and programmed to the same vin that's in the pcm rather than the vin of the truck. If some one tries this and it works let me know,because i'm about ready to start my own swap. Enjoy reading thi sight alot and have learned alot about what im up against. I'm going to attemp to install 06 hemi w/ mds system and 545 5spd auto in a 2000 dakota 2wd. Thanks again, any advice is welcome. Dave

[George]

A 4.7 Motor and 5.7 Hemi Have the same sensors,Crank, Cam etc...Why won't the Stock ecm from the 4.7 Dak. work with the Hemi "IF" you re-wire the computer to do so.It seems to me all you need to run a motor is spark and fuel..Right.I have been doing my swap for 6 mo. I have the motor and trany in and lined up-everything is great"Check out"DodgeForum.com" under HemiDak-Quad...with pix.
I got a wiring harness and ecm+tcm from a junkyard Payed $350.00 for it. Got it home and I think it's for a 4.7.RAM. The ECM has three plugs.I don't know if a Hemi ever came with just three.."even in 2003" with a split unit"ecm+tcm..I can't find anyone that can tell me if this ecm+tcm, is for a Hemi or not.I don't know what to do ,I think I just wasted the last of the money I HAVE TO PUT INTO THIS THING.Someone please help..
Thank you....