Improved throttle response?

[BlackDak]

When I punch it from a stop, there is a lag in power, maybe a couple seconds, before I can really feel it start to pull.

What can I do in increase response?

01 Dak, 4.7/auto

[WicKed R/T]

1 word.......BLOWER!!! hehehehe:finger2:

[suffolk_mopar]

do you have a cai?
if so then put your air hat back on. the original airhat acts as a reservoir for air instead of having to suck it all the way from the filter... thus illiminating the hesitation you may feel. i experienced this after spending 140 on an 360 intake.

[BlackDak]

Yes, I do.

I have an FIPK, but I won't give it up, it sounds too good! You'd think that 3 feet of 4-5" tube would be enough of a reservior...

If I could afford to slap on a blower, well, I'd probably spend the money on other mods!

[ScojoDak]

do you have a cai?
if so then put your air hat back on. the original airhat acts as a reservoir for air instead of having to suck it all the way from the filter... thus illiminating the hesitation you may feel. i experienced this after spending 140 on an 360 intake.I have NEVER heard of such a thing. Reservoir for air?

[suffolk_mopar]

I have NEVER heard of such a thing. Reservoir for air?




do ya have the 4.7?? if not then i doubt ya would.
hey black dak, if ya look at your old air hat there are chambers in there. if theres any doubt drive your truck around the block. when ya get back put the airhat back on and take er round the block again and you`ll notice the difference. what i ended up doing was hooking up the cai to the airhat and she was good to go.
this was an issue over at dodgetalk a while ago. i didn`t believe it but i tried it out.

[BlackDak]

Do you have a pic of what that looks like, with the stock air hat a CAI modded in?

[suffolk_mopar]

na, no pics yet.
just give it a try and see for yourself. i don`t wanna be responsible if you`re not happy. just try your air hat on and see what ya think after ya drive it.
then if you`re happy with the power ya got back then alll ya have to do is
use a rubber coupling and cut the intake tube to fit how ya like.
but if you`re concerned how it may look you`ll be better off keeping the fipk the way it is. myself i just wanted to get my gas mileage and low end back so i wasn`t worried bout looks .

[N56629]

This whole resevoir thing makes no sense at all. Take your air hat off completely and have one awsome resevoir. Air is not like water, you can not store it unless it is pressurized. The second you use it it has to be replaced or you create a vacuum.

Just think about your engine's requirements for a minute. If it requires 600 cfm you have to have 60 cubic feet of air flowing within one second or you would be starving for air. Now how many cubic inch difference is there between the two airhats and many milliseconds will it take to use up that difference?

That said, some airhats do flow better than others. I most cases the stock airhat is pretty darn good, but most of that comes in when the engine is at peak demand.

[WicKed R/T]

For a stock engine with no mods, i'd say the stock air hat is fine. But once you get to modding and adding this and that, then it becomes a restriction because, compared to most aftermarket air hats, our stock one doesnt flow as much air.

[suffolk_mopar]

ya`ll call it silly if ya want. all i know is what i read, tried, and what worked best for my truck. opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and most of em stink. it`s all in what ya find and what makes ya happy!
so in that point, i`m happy. just sharing the wealth. :banana2:

[N56629]

For a stock engine with no mods, i'd say the stock air hat is fine. But once you get to modding and adding this and that, then it becomes a restriction because, compared to most aftermarket air hats, our stock one doesnt flow as much air.

Do you know of anyone that has actually done a flow test on airhats?

I'm going to set up some time to do some tests on a SuperFlow. So if anyone has a cracked or repairable airhat laying around and they would like to donate, let me know. I plan to set each airhat on a stock tb and see if there is any difference in the maximum flow. Personally, I think most all airhats, including the stock one, are capable of exceeding the demands of any stock tb or even a 52mm F&B.

[suffolk_mopar]

this isn`t about which airhat flows better. this is strictly 4.7. cause i know 4.7 cai`s don`t use the stock airhat except maybe airraid( i think has that setup).
now the 5.9/5,2/3,9 cai`s run damn well. used to have a volant on mine and loved it. thats why i wanted one for my qc so bad. but to my dissapointment was a waste of money for the 4.7.

there was a guy over at dodgetalk that did the study on the with/without airhats to see which run better but i can`t seem to find that thread to link it over. i`ll keep trying to find that.


now if you wanna do the same study i have an intake tube i`d donate for the cause.

[N56629]

now if you wanna do the same study i have an intake tube i`d donate for the cause.

It would help if I paid attention. :brick: :brick: :brick:

I didn't notice that you were referring to the 4.7. However, the theory stays the same in regards to an "air reservoir." Having no airhat or airbox would give you access to the ultimate "air reservoir." It may be the shape that allows air to speed up quicker or attain a higher velocity. I guess I should look into the 4.7 some more.

[suffolk_mopar]

well like i said at first. i`m only sharing the knowledge i have seen 1st hand.
with the cai the engine seemed to bog down for a few seconds when the pedal was pushed. with the airhat back on it just squated and went. for some odd reason it hesitates . so when i use the word "reservoir" thats just the best way i could think to explain it. nonetheless the 4.7/3.7 runs better with an airhat. slightly better gas mileage also. slightly, but hell with gas prices the way they are i can use every bit of gas mileage i can squeeze out,lol.
so that`s simply my conclusion after my $140 360intakez cai. :cussing:

[Five9Dak]

I call BS on the air res. thing. Intake length in front of your tb has little to do with low end torque or response. Intake manifold valume is a whole nother animal though.

[BlackDak]

Well, as far as I am concerned, it doesn't matter to me too much, seeing as I am unwilling to lose the sound my CAI makes.

Back on topic, is there another way to increase off-the-line pull?

I am hoping there is something I could do to trick the computer, maybe create a false reading in a sensor? I don't know, I just want to be able to launch better...

[HemiDak]

Since you have the same drivetrain setup I do (4.7/Auto/AWD) I know exactly how you feel. The truck hooks up VERY well to the ground, and goes when it's got the power. Our problem with the 4.7/Auto is that it only wants to makes it's power above 2500 RPM. What this engine needs is more torque, plain and simple.

When the truck was completely stock (31" tires and stock 3.92 gears) it was pretty quick, but of course only after 2500 RPM. After I put on 33x12.5" M/T's I noticed a bit of a slow down in power, and decided I will do a bit here and there to get it back up and faster than stock. Right now, the truck is MUCH faster even with the stock 3.92 gears.

As of now, I only have some bolt-ons, but they have all made a difference. Here's what I have (that actually make a noticable difference:

True dual 2.5" exhaust
Superchips MicroTuner
Fastman true 68mm throttle body
Intense Performance Stage III cold air intake
Flex-a-lite Black Magic electric fan (no clutch fan)

The intake helped a bit and they always do. The exhaust made a difference also, but it took a while to get used to it and feel it. The throttle body made a HUGE difference, and probably the most IMO. Superchips only makes a difference (IMO) when it's filled with Premium and tuned to it. Other than that, it was mostly for tire/speedo calibration. The no clutch fan made a bit of a difference too, but not anything bragging about. All together the few mods I have are nice, but I'm still lacking a HUGE amount of torque I need. For the money, the intake and bigger throttle body were the best, hands down.

Now, on to things to get rid of that "power lack under 2500 RPM" we have. There's pretty much two ways to get the torque you'll need (and no surprise I still don't have them yet). Cams and gears. Hands down without a doubt they'll be the biggest difference in low-end you'll find. Are they ever cheap though? Hell no! We wish though.

With your setup, I would say get some 4.10's though I guess you'd have 3.92's now. If you have 3.55's then they'd make a huge difference. 4.56's are too low of a gear to run with small tires, so stick with 4.10's. In all honestly though, for the money and the slight difference between 4.10's and 3.92's.....they might not be worth it.

The cams on the other hand aren't as cheap as gears, and can probably be installed by yourself. You can go with just the simple HO cams (aka 200) which will make a nice boost on the low-end. Then there's the option of a 206 cam which will make more a low-end difference and even more high-end difference. From there you can do an even milder cam like a 212 or higher for something like a forced induction setup. I personally would go with the 206's and no bigger than the 212's. If you know what these numbers mean then great, you're up to par with the cam talk. If not, then head over to KRC or search around to find some more info on them for the 4.7 engine.


Though my post may have been a little long, I hope it helped you out some. Just trying to give you my best input since I was in and still am in the same boat.

[BlackDak]

Thanks, that's good info.

I have the intake, but that's it from your list. It's not a problem so much for me that it would be worth fixing for more than $100, more of an annoyance. How much are the throttle bodies?

I am planning to do the exhaust this summer, if I ever get a bonus.

Now the cams. I have never looked into what the numbers mean exactly, I know they have something to do with how long the intake and exhaust valves are open, though.

On these engines, are there one or two cams? Standard center-of-the-block or is it a overhead setup?

If it's an overhead setup, I'd be willing to do that myself. Others I have done were a piece of cake like this. The other type would be too much disassembly for a daily driver.

[suffolk_mopar]

well i apologize for high jacking this thread. but wanted to share my experience. as for those who commented on the 4.7 as earlier stated how would ya know unless ya tried it? especially the guys who do not have the 4.7. oh well .
and blackdak, unless ya start some serious mods it`s gonna be hard to get better throttle response. but these guys have some good advice, all ya need is the money to do the crap,lol. the fb throttle body is well worth the money tho.(can`t remember how much)

[BlackDak]

Suffolk, I appreciate your input!

I'll be looking more into the FB.

[N56629]

well i apologize for high jacking this thread. but wanted to share my experience. as for those who commented on the 4.7 as earlier stated how would ya know unless ya tried it? especially the guys who do not have the 4.7. oh well .

Some things are fundamental to all internal combustion engines. In the case of the "air reservoir" it just one of those things that's fundamental to nature, you know, science, physics and all that junk. That even includes the 4.7.

I don't think anyone disagreed with whether or not something worked. The disagreement is in the logic behind it.

[ScojoDak]

I don't think anyone disagreed with whether or not something worked. The disagreement is in the logic behind it.Well said.

[DakDrgn02]

I for one have to agree with the theory that it makes no differance on the airhat. It is the amount of the air (vacuem) that the intake creates when you open the thottle. The more vac you create, the more air your engine will pull in.
I think that a bigger TB and an adjusted Mass Air sensor can really help with almost any thottle response.
Now me on the other hand, I can't afford any of these at the moment. But I would love to go with TB, MAF, and cam(mild) to improve the "snap".
This is my opinion, and I'm sorry if I step on any toes. :sorry:

[Magnum]

Adjusted Mass Air Sensor?

[WicKed R/T]

These trucks dont use a MAF system. They use a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) based system.

[Five9Dak]

Hehe, Ill adjust your MAF for 50 bucks. Garunteed 0hp gain.

[Baby Hemi]

Well I just finished reading this and I agree with suffolk. I am not sure about the logic behind the airhat, but I know what works. I had my stock airhat on my 4.7 with a CAI attached to it. I purchased one of the 360 air intakes and I am not impressed. To be honest with you my vehicle was more responsive with the 1st setup. I notice a lot more noise from the 360 intake, but that's it. When I get home I am switching mine back

[HemiDak]

You guys must remember that colder air is better for an engine than warmer air. Sure a CAI may pull in MORE air, but it might not actually be COLDER air, even with a "heatshield".

The stock air intake pulls it more from the concealed area outside of the engine bay, right behind the headlight. This is why it may seems like it's better; it pulls in colder air. This is why the best kind of air is ram air, when it's pulled from outside of the engine bay (and of course that "ram air" thing that can be endlessly debated).

IMO the best intake for our trucks is the Intense Performance Stage III. It actually pulls it from only the fender space behind the headlight, where's it's MUCH harder for hot air to reach. Besides a Shaker hood, this is what I like best.

[Baby Hemi]

I have tried both setups with and without the air hat. I have tried it with the air filter in the same place on both setups. With the airhat it is more responsive. Don't ask me the logic behind this but I am just sharing my observations. I went home yesterday and put my airhat back on and used the same filter from the 360 kit in the same exact spot. I have a bunch of misc. pipes and fittings so I was able to accomplish this. The vehicle is more responsive now and without all the (to me) unnecessary intake noise. Like I stated before the 360 intake makes a lot more noise, but it is just not as responsive with this intake. From what I have noticed most aftermarket setups for the 4.7 replace the airhat. I have tried several as well as custom fabricated a few, and all were more responsive with the airhat. This makes my 3rd vehicle with the 4.7 so I have played around with this idea a little :woot: I would agree with you on the intense performance if they made a stage 3 for the 4.7. Look at the stage 2 for the 4.7 if you notice it uses the factory air hat.

[mopar rt]

A time tested set up is an air filter housing mounted on the TB with air being supplied from out side of the engine compartment. NASCAR has been doing this for years and for good reason. If hood scoops and the run of the mill cold air intakes worked best they would be using them in place of the system that they are currently using.

[DANSKOTA]

I have the 360EZ intake, and even though it grabs air from the hot engine compartment, I experience better 'off the line' power via the CAI than with the airhat factory setup. In fact, I put the factory setup back on so that I could get some warranty work done (just under 36,000 mi on my 2002), and the engine would seriously dog out on WOT! I guess the computer had adjusted to my 360EZ.

Unfortunatley I have the ugly 3.55 gears, and I can rarely lite the tires, but occasionally I can burn a patch. I'm with whoever suggested the 4.10 gears. That will wake up any engine that peaks at higher RPMs, namely the 4.7.

The problem is with the 4X4. If I want 4.10, I have to buy both new pumpkins, and thats a fact. Supercharger or new gears. Tuff choice!

Good luck, my friend! :biggthump