I HATE IFS and can you guess why?

[HemiDak]

The weak-ass aluminum axle housing Chrysler decided to make it out of...

It seems like I'm not the only one who's come to the enjoy the fun of blowing a front differential. :D My weekend outing at the Badlands Offroad Park landed me a blown front diff, which didn't surprise anyone.

The way it happened is that I was going up a rock hill, and after trying a few times, the front recieved too much torque and the diff just cracked in half. The diff never landed on anything, or was either side jarred or jammed on rocks or anything. I had taken another run, even harder, and went just fine. MANY pics were taken, and off all the damage when I pulled the axle out today.

Here are the pics, and the rest of the pics are located in the Photobucket album at the bottom:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/YellowKota2k/Badlands%20offroad%20park%205-28-05/DSC04082.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/YellowKota2k/Badlands%20offroad%20park%205-28-05/DSC04091.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/YellowKota2k/Badlands%20offroad%20park%205-28-05/DSC04092.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/YellowKota2k/Badlands%20offroad%20park%205-28-05/DSC04110.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/YellowKota2k/Badlands%20offroad%20park%205-28-05/DSC04118.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/YellowKota2k/Badlands%20offroad%20park%205-28-05/DSC04120.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/YellowKota2k/Badlands%20offroad%20park%205-28-05/DSC04122.jpg

The rest of the pics are located below, including pics of the group and I wheelin' in the park:

http://photobucket.com/albums/v126/YellowKota2k/Badlands%20offroad%20park%205-28-05/

[Dev0station]

tough break... sorry to hear about it... on the bright side that looks like a great park.

Any ideas on what you'll do with the front dif? Upgrade? junkyard replacement? new dealer dif? SAS?

[DAKSPORT1PA]

Wow. That sucks. Hope you get it back on the road soon.

[ScojoDak]

How in the BLUE HELL did you do that?

[HemiDak]

How in the BLUE HELL did you do that?

A V8 + 4lo + traction = lots of torque

That's how I broke it. ;)

[ScojoDak]

Well, now you make a claim (along with photos) that not many other people can. Show and tell them "got torque?"

[WicKed R/T]

Holy shit.....that's either alot of torque or one crappy differential......or both...hehe. Sorry to hear about that.

[scentralpirate]

well I guess that means that instead of a gear swap I would like to do someday I'll just save that money and swap axles instead.

tough break ...pun intended :biggthump

hope you get it going soon.

[HemiDak]

Holy shit.....that's either alot of torque or one crappy differential......or both...hehe. Sorry to hear about that.

It was probably a bit of both. A ratio in low-range of 2.72:1 and then 3.92:1 in the differentials tends to create a LOT of torque to the wheels. It also wasn't even close to the first time I've seen it happen, so it wasn't just the power problem. Damn weak-ass alumunim...


On a side note, I did get the truck up and running again. After being down for 2 weeks, it was quite stumbly and hesitant, but drove alright. The front end is now completely fixed, and functional. It came to just about $1000 to fix with all my labor, and used parts except for the hubs.

[JethroStyles]

You could have bought a Dana 44 from a Cherokee for less than $1000... Now I'll be it it'd take some custom work to get it in there, but....

Glad to hear it's up and running again... I really like the whole "yellow dakota" it's HOT :drool:

[T.j.]

Yea me and my friends took a video from the front of my truck, I put it in 4 low, stuck it in first and stomped on it, He said the whole truck lifted, twisted, and the tires got real narrow....the torque is crazy. This was on pavement, and as I pulled away I could see 4 tread marks. :biggthump Yaaaaysss!! :biggthump

[HemiDak]

You could have bought a Dana 44 from a Cherokee for less than $1000... Now I'll be it it'd take some custom work to get it in there, but....

Glad to hear it's up and running again... I really like the whole "yellow dakota" it's HOT :drool:

Thank ya. :)

As for the solid axle and buying a Cherokee to wheel, I'm still actually tied up on the decision. I think I'll be a few weeks or months before I fully decide on what'll happen for sure.

[krweby]

SAS is the way to go. But you will be better off with a 44 out of a 78-79 f250 3/4 ton axle.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/617000-617999/617450_19_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/617000-617999/617450_18_full.jpg

[HemiDak]

SAS is the way to go. But you will be better off with a 44 out of a 78-79 f250 3/4 ton axle.

Thanks for the insight, but I do already have a late 70's Ford D44 axle lined up, if I do the swap. I have MANY pics of your Durango, the others, and most of the Dakotas that have done a solid axle on their trucks. ;)

[MagnumDak]

damn that sucks, what size is the front, 8.25? I say fuck it and get full ton running gear. better to do it once, right? we arent much lighter or weaker than full size trucks. but it all depends what ya plan on doing though, if ya plan on crawling around don't worry about the tonage to much, I rode around ona buggy this weekend that had big tractor tires and carried alot of wieght, al he had was 1 ton running gear and we went everywhere (crawled).

[Bob Sheaves]

I read this thread with a great deal of interest (due to my background) and it is amazing, not that you broke the carrier housing, but rather you did not split either of the tripod joints on the inboard end of the half shafts.

One point of reference however, the problem lies, not with the IFS design itself, but rather the design application execution. IFS has been proven for years in military and heavy duty (I am not talking of "toy trucks", but of 50,000 plus GVW vehicles that meet a lot harsher conditions that you have seen at Badlands) tactical and combat vehicles. Any design, if not done properly, will break. My 1997 is currently undergoing a design study for possible build of an 18" high travel IFS, based on a design I did a number of years ago, utiizing AAM 9.25" axles (from the PowerWagon, specifically) with the electronicly controlled diff locks and being converted to a floating design carrier housing, instead of a rigid mounting housing as is stock on the Dakotas and Durangos. Additionally, I am incorporating the integrated swaybar electronicly controlled disconnects to maximize the jounce to rebound travel and flexibility.

Interesting reading.....i hope things have improved for you!

Best regards,

Bob Sheaves

[krweby]

Bob you'll have to keep us posted on that. It would be an interesting conversion.

[HemiDak]

I would absolutely kill for a long-travel IFS setup. Since my truck sees more dunes, it would be the best thing for me.

I went back to the Badlands, and my truck did just as well as before. I was just about as hard on it, and everything went fine. I'm led to believe it was just a fluke accident, as what I was doing last time when it happened, wasn't all too rough on it.

[lilguido1]

Bob - what the heck is it that you do for a living? You have no idea how many ears, much less other items, have popped up at your highly insightful dissertation on a long travel IFS for our humble Dodge's...

Please elaborate (no, I'm not being cynical)

[Bob Sheaves]

Ummmm.the normal answer to that would be that I am just a good ol' boy from North Carolina originally, that knows a little bit about puttin' cars together. The formal answer is that I am an automotive engineer by trade (specifically a suspension engineer and vehicle dynamics developer) and have been for the past 30 years.

Does that answer your question?

Best as always,

Bob

[lilguido1]

Does that answer your question?

Yup - will you adopt me?

No seriously, you have the possibility of helping a bunch (who exactly knows the numbers) of us 4wd Durango / Dakota owners become avid off roaders. Granted, some of us are puddle jumpers and think we're out there "doing it", but we're not (without breaking things regularly). We simply cannot get out there and compete or run with Jeeps and HumV's w/o undergoing a tremendous amout modifications like an SAS swap. I happen to know this because I have friends that have both types of vehicles that I just mentioned and we always see my parking lot queen when we come back from running trails...know that she's pretty, but not quite as competent

You've just opened an entirely new realm of possibilities...
I, myself, am extremely interested in what it is you are talking about and if I can be of any service in moving your idea's forward, let me know.

[Bob Sheaves]

I appreciate your kind comments. One big warning however.....IF I made many comments about the how and why of suspension design, there would be an uproar and name-calling such has not been seen on here before and I have no intention of having myself thrown off the boards for starting a "firefight" (worse than a flame war-as anyone from the SEA wargames will attest :)). There are certain issues of offroad mobility in a design that I have to be concerned with, such as liability (if I make a mistake in a design, I kill people...simple fact) and VCI (Vehicle Cone Index- a true measurement of mobility, as opposed to the less than real world "RTI-Ramp Travel Index" which is a wet dream of some magazine writers a number of years ago) that most people have never even heard of, let alone understand the concept.

Independent suspensions are not easy to build-simply becasue they are far more complex and adjustable than any solid axle design (which is another misnomer for a suspension design-there really is NO such thing as a "solid" axle in engineering terms in use by anyone today) and they are EXTREMELY expensive to play with. As an example, the design I am working on will probably cost me somewhere in the neighborhood of $30,000- $50,000 to prototype build, assuming no labor cost of my own. Can you really justify such an expense? For a team I consult with, they can-their single car budget for next year is $250,000, just to design and build the car.

There is an old saying I learned years ago at GM/Military Vehicles Operations:

"If you want to run with the big dogs, you had better learn to pee on tall trees."

Best as always,

Bob

[Popkorn]

Since I'm still a newb on this forum, I get to read back and bring up old posts..... lol
Anyhew, a couple decades or so ago I had a 72 3/4 ton Fod 4x4 PU with 38 Ground Hogs. First thing I did was to take it down to the Columbia river bottoms and start jumping every lump of sand I could find. Oh to be young again... Didn't take long til I came down hard on the front end while my foot was still pegged to the floor. KABANG! That was it for the front end. Thought I landed on another rig or some thing.
I could'nt imagine these rigs surviving through half the abuse we did to our old Fods and Power Wagons. Some day, when the upullit is full of old Durangos, we just might find out.

[lilguido1]

I could'nt imagine these rigs surviving through half the abuse we did to our old Fods and Power Wagons. Some day, when the upullit is full of old Durangos, we just might find out.


Hey, we may not have the durability of the old rigs...but when is the last time that you abused something sitting in leathers seats...with the A/C on...all the while adjusting the 6-way power seats?

Just razzing you - welcome to the village where all the other villages lost their idiots to!

[dakolorado]

PICS DONT WORK NO MORE SO....


I went on a TREK to find them and here they are...


http://photobucket.com/albums/v126/YellowKota2k/Badlands%20Offroad%20Park/?start=80

[HemiDak]

If people want to see the pictures again, I can redo my first post so they're back up. I rearranged all my pictures so I didn't have so many folders. It was getting pretty cluttered with tons of pictures I didn't need.