5.7 Hemi / dakota swap [Archive] - Dodge Durango Forum

: 5.7 Hemi / dakota swap


69rrbruce
12-07-2007, 07:10 AM
So I recently picked up a 2004 Ram 5.7 Hemi with 5 speed auto to replace my 220K 1998 Dakota V6 with 5 speed manual. After reading some of the swaps done by others on the board it seems that I might have an incompatible combination. It's the wiring that's got me worried, but Ive got all winter to get this worked out. Please tell me I didn't make a mistake!

j0ec2Ram
12-07-2007, 11:52 AM
if you have the ram harness from headlights to tail lights no worries other wise you willneed a bunch of factory wiring diagrams to do your swap

j0ec2Ram
12-07-2007, 11:54 AM
also if you are putting back to manual i can help you with that in formation,because the auto s are stupid and a pain in the balls decause they have a separate control module

viperkota
12-07-2007, 01:10 PM
also if you are putting back to manual i can help you with that in formation,because the auto s are stupid and a pain in the balls decause they have a separate control module

actually the 04 he has, has the pcm and tcm in one housing...so it will be easier..but you can make it work...talk with josh...yellowkota2k, he did the first known hemi swap

HemiDak
12-07-2007, 03:38 PM
So I recently picked up a 2004 Ram 5.7 Hemi with 5 speed auto to replace my 220K 1998 Dakota V6 with 5 speed manual. After reading some of the swaps done by others on the board it seems that I might have an incompatible combination. It's the wiring that's got me worried, but Ive got all winter to get this worked out. Please tell me I didn't make a mistake!

It's most definitely doable.

actually the 04 he has, has the pcm and tcm in one housing...so it will be easier..but you can make it work...talk with josh...yellowkota2k, he did the first known hemi swap

I didn't do the first known one. There were two others that were done, along with a couple that claimed they did it, but had no proof. I was merely the one to put all of my swap information and progress out there.

Nemesis
12-07-2007, 04:59 PM
theres also alot more to deal with then just what josh had to do. The 4.7edu and 5.7 ecu setup is simular so just splicing in the ram ecu works. Doing it in an older dakota with the older ecu may or maynot work with just splicing in. Also the trannies are differat, i dont know if your 5spd manual will bolt up. I know theres a company that makes kits for the 5.7hemi to bolt up to an older 727/904 tranny. Also theres the fuel line and fittings and also, your fuel pump might not be able to handle the larger 5.7.

And if you cant use the same 5spd tranny thats in your truck now then you will need a new driveshaft also.

69rrbruce
12-07-2007, 11:26 PM
if you have the ram harness from headlights to tail lights no worries other wise you willneed a bunch of factory wiring diagrams to do your swap......also if you are putting back to manual i can help you with that in formation,because the auto s are stupid and a pain in the balls decause they have a separate control module

I only have the 2004 5.7 engine/trans wiring harness. I think it might be even more involved to replace all the wiring in the truck.
I want to use the 5sp Auto as I have visions of twin turbos. I like the idea of using a trans-brake for building boost before launching.

It's most definitely doable.


I think you're right, it'll just take some investigation of each vehicles wiring diagrams and coming up with a custom harness.

Thanks all your encouragement.

RT360
12-11-2007, 12:16 PM
Hit the guys up at www.hotrodlane.cc . They build custom HEMI harnesses for 5 speed or automatic. Cool site either way.

Shane
www.madrt.com

69rrbruce
12-11-2007, 06:13 PM
Hit the guys up at www.hotrodlane.cc . They build custom HEMI harnesses for 5 speed or automatic. Cool site either way.

Shane
www.madrt.com

Shane, Thanks for the tip. I've sent them an email with some questions.

cegpcola
12-11-2007, 08:21 PM
The swap should not be much more than what any of us with the 4.7 went through. The wiring will be a little different than ours, but not by much at all really. You are still running the same signals to the PCM, the only thing that you will need (if I recall correctly) is the brake signal for the torque convert lockup, which can be done by purchasing the brake switch for the 2005 Ram. This switch is a one time switch, and connot be reused if you pull it from another vehicle. Pretty much all of the rest of the signals the PCM is going to look for should be there.

A few issues that I have with my swap are: The lack of Cruise Control due to the differences in the switches from the Ram and Durango/Dakota; I only have one brake signal in the Durango, and the PCM looks for two, due to my using my stock brake switch; The lack of ABS since there is no Torque Management signal from the PCM to the ABS unit; And finally some evap codes, due to the differences in the parts and Evap system. The drivability is better than it was with the 4.7L, even with these code and issues. Most of these I can find ways around, but I am still working out little bugs since my swap is only about 2 months old now. The throttle setup has been a bit of a pain though. I originally went with the 2003-2004 Hemi Ram throttle setup with the box that converts the cable to a signal for the PCM (stock dodge part) but the issue has been with the throttle cable pulling out of the end that I had to make up for it. So I am currently working on switching to the 2005 Hemi Ram Throttle pedal with the built in Reastat(sp) switch in it. This means custom built brakets to mount it into the cab in place of the old Throttle Pedal. The box runs for about $225, and the Pedal runs for about $110, both are available at your local dealer, but be expecting them to have to order them. Also both of these parts were only installed in the Hemi version of the Ram, so if you are looking in the Junkyards, make sure you are looking for the Hemi trucks. Much like Josh, I will be more than happy to help give input on the swap, so feel free to ask. Josh has helped me out a lot with various things I ran across in mine.

Start talking with the guys over at Hotrodlane.cc, as they are very knowledgable about the Hemi, and have a video available that actually helps you in understanding the PCM and engine. Mark is usually who they will get you to when you call.

Other than wiring, your other obstical will be fab work to get it all mounted. The oilpan still has to be modded in the 2wd trucks, I know mine did in my Durango. The mounts in the 2wd are different than those in the 4wd as well, the 2wd uses a one piece mount for the motor on each side in our trucks, as the 4wd units are of a two piece design, and are easier to make work with the two piece Ram units. I tried to use a set of 4wd mounts to build off of in my application, but they sat the motor too high in the truck so they could not be used. Instead I was able to mod the 2wd stock mounts to work with the block, but this means I only have two bolts into the block on each mount. This is still more than enough to hold the motor, but you can also take a trick out of the old hotrod guys book and run a torque chain from the drivers side head down to the crossmember to keep the block from torquing up on that side when you add more power.


Kurtis

69rrbruce
12-12-2007, 01:57 AM
Kurtis,
Thanks for the tips on the 2005 Ram brake switch, throttle pedal and Hotrodlane.cc. You indicated that the Hemi oilpan will need to be modified. It was my understanding that it wouldn't in a 2WD Dakota. Fabricating motor mounts wil be a piece of cake compared to the wiring. Again thanks for your help, I'm sure I will have many more questions as I get into it.

cegpcola
12-12-2007, 02:38 AM
Not a problem at all!


I think we were all under that impression, but in my 2001 Durango the Cross member is to wide to allow the Pan to fit. I took as much off the pan as I could without having to move the pick-up, then also cut a section out of the cross member.

The wiring is not that big of a job if you pre plan everything. What I did was use www.Alldatadiy.com to get the Diagrams for the Durango and the Ram, and figure out how the wires needed to be ran before I takled it. I wound up cuting the plugs I needed to plug into my chassis harness off of my Durango engine harness, and wired these into the 2 plugs on the 2005 Ram harness. One plug is on the ECU, and the other is a section that comes off of the chassis harness on the Ram. You need to try and get these two plugs if at all possible from your donor Ram. Both of them are attatched to the chassis harness, so they will not come with the take from the Junkyard unless you ask for them. Another lug that you will need is the one for either the Pedal, or the box if you go that route. For the simplest way, I would use the pedal since you could get it from your donor as well since it is the MY2005. Feel free to ask anything you need.

Alldatadiy has a charge of like $19.95 for the first car and $14.95 for the second for 1 year subscriptions, and you can look everything up on line for both trucks, and print out anything you need. They are well written, and detailed.


Kurtis

RT360
12-12-2007, 02:39 AM
Kurtis,
Thanks for the tips on the 2005 Ram brake switch, throttle pedal and Hotrodlane.cc. You indicated that the Hemi oilpan will need to be modified. It was my understanding that it wouldn't in a 2WD Dakota. Fabricating motor mounts wil be a piece of cake compared to the wiring. Again thanks for your help, I'm sure I will have many more questions as I get into it.


Check with www.engine-swaps.com for an oil pan. I went with their modified miloden for my 440. Clears the block by about a 1/4 inch, but clears. Their site says the pan is for a Gen1 and 2, but they said it would work for my 1997 Dak and it did. Hope this helps.

Shane
www.madrt.com

lo1dakota
12-26-2007, 07:07 PM
Is there a manual transmission available for the hemi? I'm thinking if I do a v8 swap this is much cooler than just a 5.9. My only problem being that I'm a manual transmission freak. I don't like autos.

HemiDak
12-26-2007, 09:08 PM
Is there a manual transmission available for the hemi?

Yes.

lo1dakota
12-27-2007, 08:28 AM
Yes.

Help me out Josh. What is the nomenclature of it? Is it possible to back up the 5.7 with my nv3500?

HemiDak
12-27-2007, 03:22 PM
Help me out Josh. What is the nomenclature of it? Is it possible to back up the 5.7 with my nv3500?

You would need to use the wiring and PCM from a 2500/3500 Ram with a Hemi and a manual. I wouldn't expect it to be too difficult of a swap.

lo1dakota
12-27-2007, 03:55 PM
Do you think my nv3500 will bolt up?

HemiDak
12-27-2007, 07:03 PM
I'm not sure it will. The 2500/3500 Rams use the NV4500, and I don't know about their interchangeability. I'm sure someone here does though.

lo1dakota
12-28-2007, 07:43 AM
I'm not sure it will. The 2500/3500 Rams use the NV4500, and I don't know about their interchangeability. I'm sure someone here does though.

Right on. Bet thats a spendy tranny.:huh:

lo1dakota
01-07-2008, 11:28 AM
bump

lo1dakota
01-17-2008, 09:45 AM
Josh, what about my current fuel system. Does my pump and everything strong enough for it?

modain
01-17-2008, 04:55 PM
Do you think my nv3500 will bolt up?
That's an interesting question. I'm gonna say "yes", but there are always complications to consider...

The 4.7L engine bolts to the NV3500 and the 5-45RFE as is. Since the 5.7L engine also bolts to the 5-45RFE it follows that it would also bolt up to the NV3500 equally. But now you will run into issues of which starter to use with the 5.7L flywheel, will the clutch for the 5.7L fit underneath the NV3500 bell housing, will the 4.7L clutch cylinder work or do you need to use the 5.7L's, will it fit, how long will the NV3500 hold up to the increased power?

So many questions, so little time.:jester: Good luck. This will be an interesting result.

HemiDak
01-17-2008, 05:46 PM
Josh, what about my current fuel system. Does my pump and everything strong enough for it?

Yes. Mine rates 49psi at the fuel rail, though the Rams put out a bit more. Once I do some more mods, I might be taking out my pump and putting in a newer one from a Ram or adding a Walbro.

lo1dakota
01-19-2008, 07:19 AM
Damn. I really don't want an Auto. Plus I just had a badass shift knob made. lol

jmm756
01-23-2008, 08:15 PM
sorry i have been lost for so long everyone, but i'm back, and so is the hemi dakota. I am on vacation in texas right now, but i have some good news, the hemi fired up this past saturday, and i hope the hemi turbo 2wd reg cab dakota will be driven on sunday, Now for some answering that needs done, Yes it is 100% able to bolt an nv3500 to a hemi, either one the 2wd or 4wd versions. The next question the pump may be able to handle a stock hemi motor, but not one with even a mild cam exhaust and intake changes. Better upgrade to something a little bigger, past 400 hp forget the stock 4.7 pump it is smaller than the hemi.

Jackedak03
01-23-2008, 08:48 PM
Could you reuse a superchips programmer from your dak if you got the same or older year HEMI- Like my 03 if I got an 03 HEMI w/computer?

jmm756
01-23-2008, 09:59 PM
unless your dakota you are planning on putting the hemi in already came with a hemi, no they are two different setups, i went with a full stand alone computer system to run my hemi, but i do know where you could get the simple version of the crate engine computer to install on yours, the only thing you will be buying the comp, intake, t boddy, etc, everything, for $1500. last i checked he still had it. the computer is a simple version just will run the truck great but you will have very little versatility for changes. dude do realize if you throw a comp cam in the higher version, headers, and an intake it will be an almost 500 hp unit!!! so a chip to add 25 - 30 hp is not worth the money vs a 300 dollar cam.

on another note to use the stock nv3500 you will need to use the stock 4.7 flywheel, and clutch for a 4.7, their are nice aftermarket ones available to handle a hemi, i picked up a spec stage 4 for my clutch. but i'm running a turbo too.

HemiDak
01-23-2008, 10:19 PM
The next question the pump may be able to handle a stock hemi motor, but not one with even a mild cam exhaust and intake changes. Better upgrade to something a little bigger, past 400 hp forget the stock 4.7 pump it is smaller than the hemi.

I know if I do anymore mods the stock fuel pump will need to go. I have an occasional cutout of power during the 1-2 or 2-3 shift, which I suspect is the fuel pump not meeting the fuel demands. It doesn't happen often though. I do agree that past 400 hp will require a new pump.

Could you reuse a superchips programmer from your dak if you got the same or older year HEMI- Like my 03 if I got an 03 HEMI w/computer?

Yes. There are, however, a couple better options coming out that are much better than the Superchips. I would ditch the Superchips during the swap.

jmm756
01-23-2008, 11:19 PM
one of the biggest restrictions on the stock fuel pump is the regulator, the stock regulator has a 3/16 inch inlett, which would be lucky to feed a high hp 4 cyl let alone a 48. gotta ditch the stock regulator on the top of the tank first priority, i can build a bypass for anyone who wanted it to plum in 3/8 npt fitting, which could flow enough for about 700 hp, with a 1/4 inch npt return line for a custom fab.

Jackedak03
01-24-2008, 04:59 PM
I'm just wondering about the superchips because if I did a swap, I'd like to have at least that as a power adder as I probably wouldn't go too far into the engine with Mod's. I'm seriously considering this within the next year, just keeping my eye out for the perfect candidate.

montanan rt
02-03-2008, 11:24 PM
hey YellowKota2K just wondering would a hemi bolt up to the 46re in a 2000 rt and also what kind of mileage do you get. thanks

HemiDak
02-04-2008, 03:59 AM
hey YellowKota2K just wondering would a hemi bolt up to the 46re in a 2000 rt and also what kind of mileage do you get. thanks

No, it won't. I get 15mpg on the highway, which is about what I got before the swap. That is also calculated which an incorrect speedometer, so it should actually be a little higher.

new"D"owner
02-10-2008, 07:49 PM
what about running a carb and stand alone engine controller from xv motorsports www.xvmotorsports.com

HemiDak
02-10-2008, 10:09 PM
You can run the XV intake with a stock throttle body as well, granted you have an adapter made like the other people who have it.

new"D"owner
02-11-2008, 01:05 AM
anybody know of an adapter to bolt a 5.7 hemi to a big block dodge 727? would be killer in my fury& also does this mean that the xv computer will run the efi and stock throttle body would make a swap in my 2000 durango real simple

HemiDak
02-11-2008, 02:45 AM
anybody know of an adapter to bolt a 5.7 hemi to a big block dodge 727? would be killer in my fury...

Not that I know of.

...also does this mean that the xv computer will run the efi and stock throttle body would make a swap in my 2000 durango real simple

Yes.

cegpcola
02-11-2008, 10:18 PM
www.hotrodlane.cc has an adapter for the 727! Great guys that will be glad to help out.



I am goetting around 22-23 mpg on the Interstate with my swap.....of course that is with my stock 355 gears and a completely stock 5.7. Huge fuel milage gains over the old 4.7L.

I have checked, and my gauges seem to be dead on after the swap.

69rrbruce
02-15-2008, 11:11 PM
www.hotrodlane.cc has an adapter for the 727! ......
I'm pretty sure thats for a small block 727.

lo1dakota
03-12-2008, 08:13 AM
The main question I have for the NV 3500 is do ya'll think it can handle it? That sucks about using the 4.7 flywheel and clutch cuz I allready have CF dual friction in it.

guehner
04-09-2008, 12:04 AM
I was thinking of pulling the 3.7 and putting in the 5.7, how difficult is this swap? I realize I will need a new motor and tranny, but I was going to pull one out of a wrecked hemi, the entire motor and tranny with everything attached. What needs to be done?

cegpcola
04-09-2008, 12:52 AM
There is a good bit of Fab work for the motor mounts, as well as clearancing the oil pan, but the wiring is not too bad at all.

69rrbruce
04-09-2008, 03:20 AM
Checkout YellowKota2k's hemi swap thread. I would consider it to be the bible on this swap.

Caiden
02-16-2011, 01:56 AM
sorry but i actually have a question can a 2005 dakota engine be put into a 1998 dakota and if so how would i go about doing so

durango2001
02-16-2011, 02:06 AM
very old thread to ask a question in but anything can be done with time and money, what motor does the 05 have and what motor does the 98 have? btw i think your one of the clostest people to me on the forum i am outside of chattanooga so hello neighbor