Time to put up or shutup.... looking for engine flush

[TurboBlew]

I have an engine that looks like this...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/Frankfriendly/Rocker.jpg

Also having oil pressure problems. What kind of chemicals do you sell that can desludge this baby without me having to pull the motor to clean the pickup/pan.

Suggestions?

[viperkota]

check their site...they do offer an engine flush


http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/aef.aspx

[TurboBlew]

Have you used it?

[hskrRT]

Put a quart of tranny fluid in the motor and run it for a couple hundred miles. Then just switch to synthetic oil and it will clean itself out. What type of oil pressure problems are you having??

[TurboBlew]

Tranny fluid has been done twice. The motor does not like it for very long (I went almost 20miles on it) as it starts clacking and glowing the oil light.

Put a mechanical guage on it... showing 20psi at idle... 30ish at cruise (under 50mph) then it drops to around 20psi when fully warmed up.
Been running sythetic (10w30) oil for almost 2weeks.

I suspect the sludge is blocking the pickup. Under load the pressure drops to 15lbs.
Tried store bought engine flush and tranny fluid twice so far.
Engine has 135k on it now.

Put a quart of tranny fluid in the motor and run it for a couple hundred miles. Then just switch to synthetic oil and it will clean itself out. What type of oil pressure problems are you having??

[hskrRT]

Hmm, wonder if the motor got overheated at one time to get the oil caked on like that?? Not sure how much more money you want to throw at the motor before tearing it down, but for the oil pressure problem, you might try a can of the Restore engine treatment. I've used it on other vehicles and it worked good to help fix oil pressure and oil burning, but these were motors that burnt oil enough to warrant it. If you aren't burning any oil, it probably won't help.

What type of oil was used in the motor that caused the build up?? How many miles on the motor?? What brand synthetic you using now? What oil filter you using?

[hskrRT]

Have you tried running some Seafoam through the crankcase?? That's one of the "uses" listed for it.

[TurboBlew]

I seafoamed the intake and cylinders. All is well inside there.

The motor doesnt show any signs of abuse. Maybe some neglect on oil changes but no leaks or blown seals. Im the 2nd owner according to carfax.
The motor runs absolutely fine. Doesnt burn oil and makes great power for being choked with a crushed y pipe. All the cylinders had over 125psi cold when I did a compression test.
I changed the sending unit and did a street t for the mechanical guage.
Looking down the pushrod holes there is alot of sludge on the head gasket.
Id imagine the pan is gunked up pretty good too. Looking at the pickup from another motor... it wouldnt take much to clog it..especially under higher rpms.
I cleaned what I could on the top end and pushrod galleys. Also cleaned the pushrods and blew compressed air through the sending unit galley in hopes of getting the sludge away from the pickup.

Most likely Ill have to pull the motor to replace the oil pump. There is no way to get the pan out with the motor in the truck.

[TurboBlew]

I dont think the seafoam will be as effective as a motor flush or tranny fluid.
Most of the solvent will evaporate under operating temps in the crank case

Have you tried running some Seafoam through the crankcase?? That's one of the "uses" listed for it.

[TurboBlew]

A few have suggested going with thicker oil. I might give the delvac oil a try.

Been using Rotella synthetic for about 2 weeks. 15/40w

[viperkota]

Have you used it?

i use it when every time i change the oil

now i'm not saying that it may be the miracle that you may need...and also i have never opened my engine...but i have ran synthetic since it had 12k miles

[TurboBlew]

Why do you always flush your engine?

[hskrRT]

I wouldn't go any thicker than 15W-40 personally. Sure, your oil pressure might go up using thicker oil, but it won't help the oil pump as it has to work harder to push the thicker oil through the oil passages. 20psi is still "within limits" for oil pressure. I would just continue to run good quality oil through it. I prefer Mobil1. Isn't the Rotella a diesel engine oil??

[viperkota]

Why do you always flush your engine?

just a personal preference cause i do the 25k mile oil change

[TurboBlew]

I figured you did extended drain intervals after I clicked reply...lol

just a personal preference cause i do the 25k mile oil change

[TurboBlew]

Its a synthetic... not sure that its truck specific. Works pretty good.
Use it in my bikes with nary a problem. Not that oil has ever given me aproblem...lol


I wouldn't go any thicker than 15W-40 personally. Sure, your oil pressure might go up using thicker oil, but it won't help the oil pump as it has to work harder to push the thicker oil through the oil passages. 20psi is still "within limits" for oil pressure. I would just continue to run good quality oil through it. I prefer Mobil1. Isn't the Rotella a diesel engine oil??

[Y2KOTA]

I use the AMSOIL engine every time The oil is changed in my cars and trucks. My engine was nice and clean after 100,000+ miles.

[TurboBlew]

Thats great but no need for the sales pitch. unfortunately the previous owner did not take good care of the truck and its pretty sludged up. Ihave to give dodge credit... this shit runs great for the neglect the inside of the engine has seen. Nary a tick, tock, knock, or whine from this engine.

Im looking to see if the Amsoil flush will work.

I use the AMSOIL engine every time The oil is changed in my cars and trucks. My engine was nice and clean after 100,000+ miles.

[viperkota]

Thats great but no need for the sales pitch. unfortunately the previous owner did not take good care of the truck and its pretty sludged up. Ihave to give dodge credit... this shit runs great for the neglect the inside of the engine has seen. Nary a tick, tock, knock, or whine from this engine.

Im looking to see if the Amsoil flush will work.

you could try this..

http://forums.probetalk.com/archive/index.php/t-4052.html)

[tosterho]

So I am having serious oil pressure problems and with it being four wheel drive I have to drop the front axle to drop the pan and if it isn't just the pickup tube then changing the pump is a bastard. I just don't understand mine because it went from good oil pressure straight to zero in a blink of an eye and I have always run royal purple synthetic and mobil 1 oil filters!

[hskrRT]

Check you oil pressure sending unit.

[tosterho]

hskr thanks I am going to try changing it tomorrow if that doesn't fix it I guess I'll have my friend tow it and at least I can use a lift on base to pull the front differential and get the oil pan and pickup tube cleaned out!

[TurboBlew]

UPDATE:

Did the kerosene trick. $3.19/ gallon here for the heating stuff straight outta the pump.
Changed the oil twice. Highest pressure Ive seen with the guage was 40psi.
After the oil changes and new oil/filter...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/Frankfriendly/PB100081.jpg

[Y2KOTA]

You asked to put up or shut up. I did. Told what I used and the long term out come. No sales pitch.

Thats great but no need for the sales pitch. unfortunately the previous owner did not take good care of the truck and its pretty sludged up. Ihave to give dodge credit... this shit runs great for the neglect the inside of the engine has seen. Nary a tick, tock, knock, or whine from this engine.

Im looking to see if the Amsoil flush will work.

[TurboBlew]

Appreciate the advise.

I might give the amsoil flush a try in the future. Gotta find a rep close by.

You asked to put up or shut up. I did. Told what I used and the long term out come. No sales pitch.

[Y2KOTA]

Appreciate the advise.

I might give the amsoil flush a try in the future. Gotta find a rep close by.

Ask our Amsoil Dealer, Steven Roark - Amsoil Rep. He pays to be a Vendor here on www.dakota-durango.com

[tosterho]

Y2Kota I had told you about mine too on a different post that it dropped to zero psi on the electrical gage out of nowhere. Well I couldn't get the oil filter off today so tomorrow I am going to get the wrench from my shop and get if off it was aggervating but I kind of laughed about it. I even pulled the plastic skid plate on put both hands on it and couldn't get it off. :funny: Anyways I am going to replace the sensor tomorrow do you think in your experience that is all that it is? Or do you think it is the pickup tube? Like I stated earlier if I have to I will pull the front diff, starter and exhaust ypipe to take the oil pan off and replace the pickup tube and clean the oil pan if I have to. I just need some advice in what to do if it isn't the sensor and is the pickup. Ya know something I can do vice dropping the pan since it is so much work and I don't have that much free time on my hands. Sorry for the long post but :help::bow:

[viperkota]

Appreciate the advise.

I might give the amsoil flush a try in the future. Gotta find a rep close by.

so you think it worked pretty good? i was just throwing it as an option...but have never heard of it.....what mix ratio did you use? have you pulled the valve cover off to see what it looks like?


glad you got it working though:mullet:

[TurboBlew]

When you remove the sensor.. you can put some compressed air in the port to knock back any particles that might be clogging the pickup screen.

Or you can funnel some kerosene down the port and see if that will dissolve any sludge.


Y2Kota I had told you about mine too on a different post that it dropped to zero psi on the electrical gage out of nowhere. Well I couldn't get the oil filter off today so tomorrow I am going to get the wrench from my shop and get if off it was aggervating but I kind of laughed about it. I even pulled the plastic skid plate on put both hands on it and couldn't get it off. :funny: Anyways I am going to replace the sensor tomorrow do you think in your experience that is all that it is? Or do you think it is the pickup tube? Like I stated earlier if I have to I will pull the front diff, starter and exhaust ypipe to take the oil pan off and replace the pickup tube and clean the oil pan if I have to. I just need some advice in what to do if it isn't the sensor and is the pickup. Ya know something I can do vice dropping the pan since it is so much work and I don't have that much free time on my hands. Sorry for the long post but :help::bow:

[TurboBlew]

I was having problems with the oil pressure. It was fine for putting around town but spirited driving turned the oil light on. I could shut the motor down and the pressure would come back. Told me there was sludge getting sucked into the pickup tube and dropping the oil pressure.

The kerosene dissolved all that plus all the high pressure galleys. I also ran alot of air pressure through those areas to help clean it out.

The valve train area and pushrod holes are still somewhat sludged up.. but that wont affect things much. Those are low pressure areas and the likelyhood of that sludge going into the sump is low. Even if it does.. the oil will hold it on the pan bottom.

Driving around tonight the pressure was steady and above 60psi, even hot. I cant complain about that! This motor is ready to go another 100k easy!
:D

so you think it worked pretty good? i was just throwing it as an option...but have never heard of it.....what mix ratio did you use? have you pulled the valve cover off to see what it looks like?


glad you got it working though:mullet:

[tosterho]

It was just the sending unit. I changed the oil 3 times now and it still comes out as clean as it did when I put it in and I ran it pretty hard to heat the oil up before I changed it. I just want to tell you guys thanks for all of your help. I am so glad it only cost 40 something bucks instead of a few thousand!

[pirahnah3]

kerosine or deisel fuel for a wshort time cleans everything right out used to do this on my fathers boat, he had twin chevy 350s for power and it kept them nie nad clean esspecially considering it was a saltwater vessel and raw water cooled.

[Amsoil Dealer]

__________________



I have an engine that looks like this...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/Frankfriendly/Rocker.jpg

Also having oil pressure problems. What kind of chemicals do you sell that can desludge this baby without me having to pull the motor to clean the pickup/pan. Suggestions?TurboBlew,

Sorry to get back to you so late, but I took the weekend off.

GENERAL INFORMATION - Avoid QUICK FIX Soulutions

The problem with "QUICK FIX" solutions (i.e. abrasive cleaners and flushes) is that the 10 or 15 minute flush products are thin solvents that may loosen big hunks of crud ... but not fully dissolve them. If these loose bits of crud then move around and plug an oil passage, you get the priviledge of writing checks to fix your engine ... you may not notice the negative effects immediately ... but you will eventually.
__________________________________________________

Amsoil has an Engine Flush, but I am posting here to offer you an alternative. I know many guys that have used it in "sludged" engines or older engines before they switch to a synthetic oil. It's name is Auto-Rx, (and no - I do not sell this product).

www.Auto-Rx.com (http://www.Auto-Rx.com) -- IMHO, it is the best flush on the market.

This product should be considered no matter what oil or engine used (some Amsoil Clients have used it with great success, but Auto-Rx's website states you should use it with dino). It is vegetable based and it does not affect chemistry or viscosity of the host motor oil at all.

It is NOT an Additive but a engine cleaner that really works. It has a residual effect because it cleans the rings and valve seats and valve guide seals so well. Lasts 10,000 miles or so in a gasoline engine.

Auto-Rx is a synthetic, biodegradable, highly effective, safe metal cleaner. Auto-RX is gentle, slow acting, and thorough. I know many vehicle owners that have used it and no one has reported any problems.

Auto-RX is inert in your oil, it does not negatively affect any aspect of your host oil except to clean and disburse crud to the oil filter. There are no negatives associated with it's use. Auto-RX was developed as an alternative to solvents for a slower non-hazardous alternative that does not deplete, but ends up disbursing the crud in a very small form ... small enough to flow by bearings etc.

If anyone decides to use this Auto-RX product (again ... I do not sell it) FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS RELIGIOUSLY. I wish that I sold it ... but it is a proprietary product.

I recommend this product for SLUDGE PROBLEMS, and also recommend it when someone is SWITCHING a "higher-mileage" vehicle from dino to synthetic.

Auto-Rx Directions (per the company)

FIRST APPLICATION

STEP 1
Install new oil filter ** DO NOT BYPASS THIS STEP**.
You will need a clean oil filter to catch and store liquefied contaminants coming out of your engine.
STEP 2
Pour full 12 ounces of Auto-Rx® into your existing oil.
STEP 3
Drive 500 miles, 750 miles if using synthetic oil; 1000 miles if using diesel engine.
STEP 4
Change the oil and oil filter.
STEP 5
Drive your car an additional 1500 miles with just the new oil and filter.

SECOND APPLICATION

STEP 1
Add the second bottle of Auto-Rx®
STEP 2
Drive 500 miles, 750 miles if using synthetic oil; 1000 miles if using diesel engine
STEP 3
Change the oil and oil filter.

The application for sludge problems (or high-mileage engines ) is done.
__________________________________________________

After you flush please consider Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oil (which has extra detergents to prevent this going forward).

You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link.

Thank You!

[Y2KOTA]

Glad we all could help.

[TurboBlew]

Thats what Im talking about!!!!! I appreciate the input!!! ++++ rep for you!

__________________

TurboBlew,

Sorry to get back to you so late, but I took the weekend off.

GENERAL INFORMATION - Avoid QUICK FIX Soulutions

The problem with "QUICK FIX" solutions (i.e. abrasive cleaners and flushes) is that the 10 or 15 minute flush products are thin solvents that may loosen big hunks of crud ... but not fully dissolve them. If these loose bits of crud then move around and plug an oil passage, you get the priviledge of writing checks to fix your engine ... you may not notice the negative effects immediately ... but you will eventually.
__________________________________________________

Amsoil has an Engine Flush, but I am posting here to offer you an alternative. I know many guys that have used it in "sludged" engines or older engines before they switch to a synthetic oil. It's name is Auto-Rx, (and no - I do not sell this product).

www.Auto-Rx.com (http://www.Auto-Rx.com) -- IMHO, it is the best flush on the market.

This product should be considered no matter what oil or engine used (some Amsoil Clients have used it with great success, but Auto-Rx's website states you should use it with dino). It is vegetable based and it does not affect chemistry or viscosity of the host motor oil at all.

It is NOT an Additive but a engine cleaner that really works. It has a residual effect because it cleans the rings and valve seats and valve guide seals so well. Lasts 10,000 miles or so in a gasoline engine.

Auto-Rx is a synthetic, biodegradable, highly effective, safe metal cleaner. Auto-RX is gentle, slow acting, and thorough. I know many vehicle owners that have used it and no one has reported any problems.

Auto-RX is inert in your oil, it does not negatively affect any aspect of your host oil except to clean and disburse crud to the oil filter. There are no negatives associated with it's use. Auto-RX was developed as an alternative to solvents for a slower non-hazardous alternative that does not deplete, but ends up disbursing the crud in a very small form ... small enough to flow by bearings etc.

If anyone decides to use this Auto-RX product (again ... I do not sell it) FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS RELIGIOUSLY. I wish that I sold it ... but it is a proprietary product.

I recommend this product for SLUDGE PROBLEMS, and also recommend it when someone is SWITCHING a "higher-mileage" vehicle from dino to synthetic.

Auto-Rx Directions (per the company)

FIRST APPLICATION

STEP 1
Install new oil filter ** DO NOT BYPASS THIS STEP**.
You will need a clean oil filter to catch and store liquefied contaminants coming out of your engine.
STEP 2
Pour full 12 ounces of Auto-Rx® into your existing oil.
STEP 3
Drive 500 miles, 750 miles if using synthetic oil; 1000 miles if using diesel engine.
STEP 4
Change the oil and oil filter.
STEP 5
Drive your car an additional 1500 miles with just the new oil and filter.

SECOND APPLICATION

STEP 1
Add the second bottle of Auto-Rx®
STEP 2
Drive 500 miles, 750 miles if using synthetic oil; 1000 miles if using diesel engine
STEP 3
Change the oil and oil filter.

The application for sludge problems (or high-mileage engines ) is done.
__________________________________________________

After you flush please consider Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oil (which has extra detergents to prevent this going forward).

You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link.

Thank You!

[tosterho]

auto rx also says on their website that synthetic oil is not good for engines that do have sludge problems or are acceptable to them. What do you guys think of that?

[Amsoil Dealer]

auto rx also says on their website that synthetic oil is not good for engines that do have sludge problems or are acceptable to them. What do you guys think of that?tosterho,

I don't know why they would say that on their website.
I do know that they suggest non-synthetic oil during the flush process.

SLUDGE is build-up inside an engine due to motor oil oxidation and degradation.

TRUTH -- Synthetic motor oils, because of their higher flash points and their ability to withstand oxidation and evaporation loss, are far more resistant to sludge development than non-synthetic oils. And in cold temperatures synthetics remain fluid far beyond anything petroleum oils can achieve. As a result, engines run cleaner with synthetics, offer better fuel economy, wear protection and superior performance.

[tosterho]

Well Steven maybe that is true for most engines but I think for the 4.7 that it is b.s. I will tell you why two years ago I flushed my eninge and was always using royal purple and mobil 1 oil filters changing them every 6K. It is cold here in maryland now and with short distances, the way the crankcase vents with the pcv in the oil filler neck, and the long time it takes to heat up I think any oil would produce sludge but that is my opinion. I love ammsoil and use it in my tranny, p/s, diffs and transfer case but I think I am going to stick with castrol gtx which seemed better before I switched to royal purple!

[tosterho]

Oh yeah I do believe that there is no way that castrol gtx is better than royal purple but I think in the 4.7 it has better sludge protection and would break up sludge better than synthetics would.

[hskrRT]

Royal Purple just sucks IMO.

[TurboBlew]

seriously.. put a quart of your favorite oils in teh freezer overnight. Then try to pour them out in the morning.

[Amsoil Dealer]

" ... but I think for the 4.7 ... "tosterho,

The 4.7 is prone to "FOAMY OIL EMULSION in the ENGINE OIL FILL HOUSING" and the 4.7 may also be more prone to sludge. There have been many discussions in this forum and others that addressed both issues. Most Dakota owners confuse the two issues. For those that have seen "foamy oil" ...

A TSB issued in September of 2000:

ACCUMULATION OF FOAMY OIL EMULSION 4.7L ENGINE OIL FILL HOUSING

Date: 09/11/00 (02/00) -- Bulletin # 090100A (supercedes 090100)

Model year(s): 1999-2000

Description: A customer may complain of an oil emulsion accumulation inside the engine oil fill housing. The oil emulsion will normally be foamy and be gray or light brown in color. The emulsion accumulation will often occur on cooler engine surfaces, like the inside of the oil fill housing. Modern engine oils are designed to address the oil emulsion phenomenon. Oil emulsion accumulation is normal and will not damage the engine A new baffle and a revised oil fill housing cap have been released. The baffle and oil cap will help to reduce the amount of oil emulsion accumulation within the oil fill housing.

Details: If the customer has experienced this issue, then perform the Repair Procedure.

Parts required:
53032126AA Baffle, Oil Fill Housing
53032389AC Cap, Oil Fill Housing
__________________

My wife is asking me to watch the "SPIDEY MOVIE" ... so I'll have to get back to you with sludge info later.

[Y2KOTA]

The baffle and new cap help, but not perfect.

http://y2kota.us/images/oft4.JPG

More info here. http://y2kota.us/oft.html

[viperkota]

The baffle and new cap help, but not perfect.

http://y2kota.us/images/oft4.JPG

More info here. http://y2kota.us/oft.html

now i have NEVER seen anything thats even resembles that in my 4.7

[viperkota]

seriously.. put a quart of your favorite oils in teh freezer overnight. Then try to pour them out in the morning.

ooohh..im gonna do that just to see what happens...and ill try to get a vid..


it is 7:50pm 12nov07...ill check it in the morning...amsoil series 2000 0w-30 severe service oil

[Y2KOTA]

now i have NEVER seen anything thats even resembles that in my 4.7

Happens more so in cold weather, short trips. Long trips will melt that away as the 4.7L heats up to a point where it will go back to a gases state.

[viperkota]

Happens more so in cold weather, short trips. Long trips will melt that away as the 4.7L heats up to a point where it will go back to a gases state.

:jester:that would explain why i never see it...you know how i drive...my truck even get up to temp on short runs in the winter with a 180 t-stat

[caulk04]

Royal Purple just sucks IMO.

Amen! That and Red Line...they never perform consistently well in oil tests.

[tosterho]

You guys with the 4.7 will this work for us? http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2006/25-001-06.htm If so this would be awesome!

[TheCarGuy]

So I am having serious oil pressure problems and with it being four wheel drive I have to drop the front axle to drop the pan and if it isn't just the pickup tube then changing the pump is a bastard. I just don't understand mine because it went from good oil pressure straight to zero in a blink of an eye and I have always run royal purple synthetic and mobil 1 oil filters!

That oil in the 5W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30 is an old API SL rated oil. It states on the oil bottle that the API recommends API SL rated oils for 2004 and previous vehicles. Since late 2004/early 2005, the current and up to date API oil rating is SM and superceded the oil API SL rating. Even the inexpensive store brand oils at discount auto parts stores are API SM rated. Personally, for the best engine protection I'd recommend an API SM oil and not an oil formulated from almost 5 years ago.

[TheCarGuy]

Oh yeah I do believe that there is no way that castrol gtx is better than royal purple but I think in the 4.7 it has better sludge protection and would break up sludge better than synthetics would.

Petroleum oils have molecules that are of random size with some being large, others small, etc. This can cause sludge to build up, as the smaller molecules volatize, burn off before the larger molecules do. What is left behind from these smaller molecules burning, is sludge, which shortens engine life by making the engine run hotter, drying out/cracking seals, causing oil leaks, etc. Conversely, a good Group IV synthetic oil, (and not the common Group III "synthetic oil", which is refined from petroleum crude oil), has molecules that are all of the same size and are highly resistant to burning at high temperatures. This can greatly reduce sludge build up inside an engine.

Here, read this article and it will tell you about this and much more about true synthetic oils and why you should be using them in your expensive engine ---> http://www.getahelmet.com/jeeps/tech/syntheticoil/, "Synthetic Oil: Rx For Long Engine Life, by Curt Scott"

Enjoy. :onethumb:

[ALipper]

hmmm. i'm going to give the kerosene trick a try. i saw that turboblew posted in another thread to use 80% kerosene and 20% oil for the 1st oil change. how about 50/50 for 10 minutes?