True duals?

[BadASSDakota500]

Alright, I am pretty sure I did not just see things, but since coming across this website, I have been looking at alot of performance parts, I am 99% positive I found a kit that gives you true duals...I am assuming a h-pipe or x-pipe, but can't find it anymore...anyone know who makes it and/or where I can find it? Thanks

[J_D]

www.gsmotorsports.com

[BadASSDakota500]

Thats it thanks alot!

[98 Black SLT]

Are you aware of the low end power loss that you incure with this exhaust?

[BadASSDakota500]

Not really worried about that, not like I have a high powered machine, and anyways, it can't be all that much

[DirtyR/T]

I'm going to get the Spintech Cat-back side exhaust system when my B-day rolls around. Have you looked at the catback system

[JDELUNA]

Are you aware of the low end power loss that you incure with this exhaust?


Not trying to start anything but do you have any PROOF as in dyno sheets before and after installing the GS Motorsports true duals that one loses low end torque, so called "BUTT DYNOS" do not apply ?? I am intersted in this exhaust system too. Thanks for any info.

[98 Black SLT]

Not trying to start anything but do you have any PROOF as in dyno sheets before and after installing the GS Motorsports true duals that one loses low end torque, so called "BUTT DYNOS" do not apply ?? I am intersted in this exhaust system too. Thanks for any info.
I do not have any proof myself, that is just what i was advised of back when i was contemplating that system. You could prolly run a search and find out for sure. Make sure to look at peoples experience and not just the companies information.

[JDELUNA]

I do not have any proof myself, that is just what i was advised of back when i was contemplating that system. You could prolly run a search and find out for sure. Make sure to look at peoples experience and not just the companies information.


I understand what you are saying, and I too have always heard the saying that you would lose lowend torque, but I do remember reading and seeing dyno tests by HOTROD IIRC magazine back in the early 90's and they did an exhaust shootout. The one that made the most HP and TORQUE was an open exhaust system with just straight pipes, they too also thought they would lose lowend torque but actually gained. My experience has been the same too, on my 1998 Volvo S70 T5 which has a turbo engine, putting larger exhaust system with NO muffler and I dynoed before and after,m and I did gain HP and Torque, I did not lose any lowend torque but actually GAINED lowend torque, of course this is on a turbo car so it may be different, but other people too told me that I would lose the lowend torque.

[98 Black SLT]

I understand what you are saying, and I too have always heard the saying that you would lose lowend torque, but I do remember reading and seeing dyno tests by HOTROD IIRC magazine back in the early 90's and they did an exhaust shootout. The one that made the most HP and TORQUE was an open exhaust system with just straight pipes, they too also thought they would lose lowend torque but actually gained. My experience has been the same too, on my 1998 Volvo S70 T5 which has a turbo engine, putting larger exhaust system with NO muffler and I dynoed before and after,m and I did gain HP and Torque, I did not lose any lowend torque but actually GAINED lowend torque, of course this is on a turbo car so it may be different, but other people too told me that I would lose the lowend torque.
But like you said, this was with a turbo which does not need hardly any back pressure. But the decision is up to you, but personally i would just go with a single exit flowmaster or something like that. You still get a good throaty sound without the risk of power loss.

[bronks]

This is sort of a continuation of my thread in the "engine modifications" section.
http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2241

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OK guys, I finally took shipment of my GS true duals kit and had them installed ($200.00) today. There were quite a few problems from the get go so let me get to them:

1. Scott Q, although a very nice guy, had told me through various e-mails and phone calls that my system would be shipped anyday (one week after the original 05/28 ship date)and will provide me with a tracking number. That never happened so I called Spintech themselves and spoke to Lorin who was very helpful and professional and gave me an EXACT ship date. I received two packages; one on 06/21 and one on 06/22. No biggie, just keep me in the loop.


2. This is a big one to me: no packing list and no instructions. Without a packing list, how am I to know I have all the items required? Turns out, I was short two(2) 1 foot straight pipes leading into the X-pipe! This really bothered me because it's just plain business sense. It protects them AND me. Instructions, while not totally needed, just needs to be there plain and simple. My intake kit had only a few pieces and it came with 3 pages of instruction, an addendum and illustrations!

3. I have an '03 Durango and it looks like they never even bothered to check the o2 sensor locations for my year. Each pipe had two bung holes, two of which weren't needed at all because there are no sensors on the drivers side, and one was in the wrong place on the other side. So, plug up 3 bung holes and make one new. sigh.

4. Either the driver side cross-over pipe was bent wrong, or made too short. We had to add a 4" splice so that it would make it to the X-pipe. Although it did fit before that, we couldn't get a proper seal between the e.manifold and the pipe.

5. Like I said before, add 2 straight pipes before X-pipe. The muffler was about a foot short of its bracket before rear axle.

Other than that, PIECE OF CAKE! Bolt up on the driveway at home...my ass. Total installation time, about 3-4 hrs. at a pro muffler shop.

Seriously, if I'm spending $800.00 on a system that's touted as specially made for my Durango, I expect a few minor snaffoos, but nothing like this. The saving grace is that this system ROCKS! And I will get to that in my next post after I settle down a bit.

d. branco

[bronks]

Just let me say that this system does as advertised. Butt dyno feels noticable increase of power throughout the range. There is NO LOSS OF LOW END TORQUE. In fact I got more than a little chirp from from my rear after punching it from a stop. And this is in a 4500 pound Durango.

But this kit really shines in the mid and upper ranges. It just kept pulling and the next thing I knew I'm doing over 100 mph. It's loud, but not so much that you're hating life in the cab. The sound pretty much goes away after 70 mph. As for tone, I was expecting more of deeper resonance but I think that has to do with more the size of the engine (4.7) than anything else. Being as it is I only have one other mod (intake), I think this system will only complement any other mods I plan on doing.

So all in all:

customer service> C
fabrication (not to be confused with quality)> D
quality of workmanship> B+
performance> A+


d. branco

[WicKed R/T]

Scott or someone can correct me on this but im pretty sure the whole system is put together, packaged, and sent out by Spintech. Scott just says that he needs a true dual exhaust with (insert options here) and gives them the address.

[BadASSDakota500]

Bronks-
Do you have a capability of making a video, with sound to send? Just curious to know what it sounds like. And did you get side exit or rear? Thanks

[bronks]

It could very well be, however, he is the lead in pushing the product for GS which makes him accountable for misshaps first. Then spintech. IMHO.

Just let me make it crystal clear that I'm not out to flame anyone, I just want to give an honest evaluation of the product and MY experience with it.

[bronks]

Bronks-
Do you have a capability of making a video, with sound to send? Just curious to know what it sounds like. And did you get side exit or rear? Thanks

No man, I'm sorry, I don't. I don't even own a camera, gotta buy those disposables everytime I need to take a pic. My daughter doesn't appreciate the fact that we don't have any of here cuteness on film. I told her to go outside and listen to the D instead.

I can't see anyone being remotely dissapointed with the sound. It has a very aggressive tone.

[WicKed R/T]

I understand where you're coming from. Scott is a very busy guy. He is the one who goes through every order that GSM recieves and mistakes are going to be made. Although mistakes seem to be happening a lot lately........ :huh: Maybe double checking the orders before packaging would help solve these little problems.


BTW, i accidentally edited your post bronks, clicked the edit button instead of the reply button. :hammer: I tried to put it back to the original msg.

[02graphiteR/T]

Hey Bronks. What muffler did you go with? and did you go with cats or not?
Also how loud would you say it is?

[JDELUNA]

Bronks,


I really appreciate your feedback on the GSM Duals, as I am sure everyone else is too. Now that you have shared your experience with us, I would like and hope that Scott would respond to your feedback in what happened to the QA ??? I mean I am very interested in purchasing the system from him, but if I am going to have to spend XXX amount of more money just to make them fit and work on my vehicle, that would be a very big turn off for me and if I did have to spend more money to fix mistakes I would expect some kind of compensation from the company as it did not fit or work as advertised from the begining but had to made to fit. So Scott we are awaiting your response please. :D Also what mufflers did you go with the race or street ???

[bronks]

O2graphite--

I'm pretty sure I went with the quieter sportsman muffler, although I'm not 100% on this. I also thought I was getting the catback design as seen in one of the pictures on this website. No dice, both my cats, high-flow I'd imagine, are about 6 inches past the manifold/pipe connection on each side. The kit was made for the split rear exits (just like the picture), which turned out perfectly.

After driving around town today; I didn't set off any alarms, but did manage to turn a few heads. Interior wise, there is a noticeable drone between 1500 and 2000 RPM that is very intrusive. But I don't know, the D's shell could be magnifying the whole thing. But fom outside the truck, the thing is a monster and sounds like it means business. I'm very happy with it.

[bronks]

... but if I am going to have to spend XXX amount of more money just to make them fit and work on my vehicle, that would be a very big turn off for me and if I did have to spend more money to fix mistakes I would expect some kind of compensation from the company as it did not fit or work as advertised from the begining but had to made to fit. So Scott we are awaiting your response please...


Hey JDELUNA--

That's precisely the way I feel, if I'm plopping down a good wad of cash, I expect 3 things: Good customer service (to Scotts' credit, he always answered the phone, never trying to avoid me. However, he never got back to me with a true ship date or tracking number)...Bill of Lading for all parts...And for everything to fit properly. I don't think I'm asking too much.

Hopefully things will get straightened out by the time you order your kit, because it is a tremendous improvement over stock. Just be VERY specific when ordering. Good luck.

[02graphiteR/T]

O2graphite--

I'm pretty sure I went with the quieter sportsman muffler, although I'm not 100% on this. I also thought I was getting the catback design as seen in one of the pictures on this website. No dice, both my cats, high-flow I'd imagine, are about 6 inches past the manifold/pipe connection on each side. The kit was made for the split rear exits (just like the picture), which turned out perfectly.

After driving around town today; I didn't set off any alarms, but did manage to turn a few heads. Interior wise, there is a noticeable drone between 1500 and 2000 RPM that is very intrusive. But I don't know, the D's shell could be magnifying the whole thing. But fom outside the truck, the thing is a monster and sounds like it means business. I'm very happy with it.


Cool I hope it sounds nice and loud. If not I will loose the cats. :cool:

[opie34705]

Bronks,

I got the same true dual setup from GS Motorsports and expierenced the SAME problems... but a little worse:
1. I got the huge box of parts, but no packing slip.
2. No directions. I modded it up in my living room before proceeding.
3. Insufficent parts for having it installed on a 4X4.
4. Does GS Motorsports actually think that the old exhaust clamps from stock are not going to be rusted out and useless?
5. I had to drop at least $250 on an install... and here is where the fun starts.
After talking to Scott for a while, he promised that he would send a $100 refund for my problems... 2 MONTHS AGO... and it has never arrived. The muffler shop that I had to go to to get this "bolt on" exhaust had to fabricate a few pipes and keep the truck for most of the day.

6. I doubt the X pipe is working correctly or is tuned right. With the extra bend required with a transfer case on a 4X4, the driver side pipe is longer.
7. The X pipe is pushed directly onto the heat shield/floor board of the cab of my Dakota and is getting some pretty bad vibration / drone inside the cab.
8. I had my pipes exit before the rear wheel. Had Scott included instructions, I would have known that you must turn around a bolt on the leaf springs in order to have the side exit pipes line up correctly.
9. The hangers were not in the right places, and a new one had to be installed to keep the pipes from banging on the frame.
10. The bungs for the O2 sensors were WAY off... we are talking on the wrong side of the pipe, sandwiched against the transmission. The pipes were on the correct sides, but the bungs wer all wrong.
11. If I got the quiet street mufflers, I shudder to think what the loud racing mufflers sound like. The tone is pretty high and at 4000 RPM+, it sounds a little like a rice rocket.

Service: B-
Product: C-
Performance: A+
Appearance (after turning the leaf spring bolt): A+
Sound: B

To EVERYONE out there thinking of getting a true dual exhaust, think harder about getting a cat back.

[JDELUNA]

Opie,

Thanks for your response and sharing your experience with us :cool: , but it now scares me to order this thing, might have to wait for a few months to see if they straighten out and get the QA up, or may have to go custom, but the only problem with going custom, is that the 2 shops I went to locally, automatically said that there was no way I can have dual outlets on a Durango, and both of them said that they were the best in town, I then told them that and aftermarket kit does exists that has the dual outlet, then they made some kind of excuse, etc. Might have to keep looking around. :cool:

[mopar rt]

I purchased a Gibson and had to spend more bucks in having it installed. As advertised it did not bolt right up as they said it would. After talking with the owner of a well-established shop they told me that non-of the bolt on systems actually bolt up as advertised.

After spending big bucks on the Gibson I found that it was cheaper to have the exhaust system fabricated at a custom shop. It appears that the big name companies are really only good for their mufflers and the rest of their parts are worthless.

If I had my local custom shop do all of the work I would have saved $150 bucks and would have ended up with a better exhaust system.

:hammer:

[rockadaous]

Opie,

Thanks for your response and sharing your experience with us :cool: , but it now scares me to order this thing, might have to wait for a few months to see if they straighten out and get the QA up, or may have to go custom, but the only problem with going custom, is that the 2 shops I went to locally, automatically said that there was no way I can have dual outlets on a Durango, and both of them said that they were the best in town, I then told them that and aftermarket kit does exists that has the dual outlet, then they made some kind of excuse, etc. Might have to keep looking around. :cool:

keep looking.....don't believe the hype. you just have to find someone that knows what they're doing. BTW this is a SI/DO 40 pro-series flowmaster.

http://dtw.truckmoxie.com/gallery/durang0/141374.jpg

[JDELUNA]

Well I e-mail Scott about my concerns about the true duals and that several people have had problems with their systems not fitting correctly out from the box and having to have a muffler shop make mods to it to make it fit and that no instructions or diagrams were included with the kit. He has said that kit has just been retooled for better fit with the stock spare tire on. Also instructions and diagrams will be included. I looking to order mine probably late next month before I go on vacation, that way I can have them installed while I am on vacation. :)

[kaui56]

opie, did you check to see if you got the correct one for your engine and drivetrain? 2wd and 4wd are different...thats sux though that you had all that trouble...try contact him again about the refund...he's a pretty busy guy, might have slipped his mind...

[mopar rt]

I still say save your money and have the work done by someone local. True duels will not do much more then a good cat back, except leave less money in your wallet. Buy the muffler of your choice then have the local guys do the rest.

From their pictures I would have to say that the workmanship is poor at best. The welds look like heck and from looking at them I would have to say that this system will not last long.

[Super Dave]

I recently ordered the GSM true duals for my 01 QC. I have encountered many of the same problems as many of you have.
1) No bill of lading
2) No instructions
3) I asked for rear exit at the bumper and I got rear exit on the sides directly behind the tires
I installed mine in my driveway in about 5 hours including taking the old system off. The install and fitment of the pipes went pretty well. Although I do have an exhaust leak at the drivers side manifold. The kit I ordered was the one with no cats and the sportsman mufflers. I think i regret not getting the cats as this exhaust is extremely LOUD and Raspy! To be honest it sounds like an old glasspack! Im taking the truck to the local exhaust shop this Thursday to get the tailpipes brought out to the rear ( as I had originally ordered it). Hopefully this will quiet things down a little bit. If not I will be adding a set of high flow cats to the system. Then if I still dont like it I will be taking the Spintechs off and putting a set of FLows back on.
Overall so far Im not pleased with the sound or the error with my tailpipes.
Ill keep you updated after this Thursday!
I do have one question though. Should I get another set of bungs installed for the second set of 02 sensors or should I just buy a SIMM box?

[02graphiteR/T]

I just installed minme over the weekend. Sounds awesome and i had no problems putting on the exhaust. I ordered mine with cats tho so its not insanley loud. I would just get simms boxes because putting bungs in will do nothing and a engine light will stay on

[Super Dave]

Im not too worried about the check engine light. when I installed my nu image gauge faces i taped up the check engine led light with some black tape. But I was worried that without the second 02 sensors hooked up the PCM would go into a "limp" mode. But from what I have been reading about the OBDII equipped cars and truck this will not make a difference as the PCM does not use any data from the secondary 02 sensors for engine management.
Im thinking now about having the 2 pre-cats reinstalled into my new pipes in hopes that this would quiet the system down some. ???

[02graphiteR/T]

yeah it will definently quiet the system down a little bit. i would get the cats if you are worried thats its too loud. i would go with hi flow cats tho cause i think the stock ones would be too restictive.

[JDELUNA]

With all these mistakes still happening on this exhausts, I am still kind of scared in getting one now for my 2003 Durango, I would be ordering the system with duals coming out the back bumper with the cats and the quieter mufflers, but if I am going to spend that much money and not get what I ordered, etc. that is NOT good !!!!

[02graphiteR/T]

I just put my system on and had no problems with the install. It took a while ot get it but i'm happy now. I'm glad the got the exhaust and headers.

[Super Dave]

Well I got the extra bungs installed instead of re-installing the original pre-cats. I also had the tailpipes brought out to the rear bumper ( as I had ordered them). I also had an exhaust leak at the drivers side manifold. It seems the opening on the end of the pipe was just a little wider than the ball fitting. Anyways, although this thing is still LOUD it does sound alot better. Im actually pretty pleased with the system so far. I think sometime soon Im still going to add a pair of high flow cats to quiet things down some.
If you decide to buy this system my recommendation is to have it proffesionaly installed.

[BadASSDakota500]

I started looking at this kit again...is it even available for the 5.2? See it is for the 5.9 and 4.7...but don't see the 5.2. Are the manifolds the same, so it doesnt matter anyways?

[WicKed R/T]

I think that the 5.2 has the same configuration as the 5.2...