'97 4x4 Dakota HEMI project

[dakhemi]

I guess I should introduce myself a little first. My name is Jim, and I have a '97 Dakota 4x4 SLT that came with a V-6. The transmission went south for the 2nd time in 80,000 miles, so I let the truck sit until I came up with something more durable than the stock transmission. I happened on a killer deal on a wrecked Ram 4x4 with 5.7 Hemi and 5-speed auto. I closed the deal and was actually able to drive the truck home (bent frame, but somewhat drivable).

I went right to work pulling the V-6 out of the Dakota (got it out last night) and pulled the Hemi out today. The basic plan is to use the Hemi and 5-speed auto with the Dakota's transfer case. I know the 231 'case isn't as durable as the 3/4 ton Ram's, but its also much more compact, and I know space will be tight enough as it is.

I measured the 5-speed auto, and the overall length is exactly the same as the Dakota's 4-speed auto! If the Hemi will fit in the engine bay in the same location as the V-6, I should be able to reuse my original driveshafts. But I can deal with that later...first thing is to get the engine to fit in place.

Another little bonus I found is that the Hemi's drive-by-wire throttle box attaches to the Dakota's throttle cable with no modification!

Hopefully tomorrow I can get the engine set into the Dakota's engine bay just to see how clearance is. For now the front differential has been unbolted and lowered to give more room to work. I already know there will be oilpan clearance issues, but I have several options to handle that.

I'll post pics tomorrow once I have the engine set in place.

Jim

[HemiDak]

Awesome. :biggthump

[dakhemi]

You can check out initial pics here:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2407166/1

This morning I test-fitted the Dakota's t-case to the 5-speed auto, and it was a perfect match. I will have to do something about the 4x4 shifter, because the Dakota's was bolted to the transmission, and the 5-speed has no place to attach it. I may be able to use the Ram's lever, because it bolts to the floor of the truck. Once I knew the t-case would work, I removed it to make installation easier, and set the motor and trans into place. The 5-speed auto fits in the Dakota's trans tunnel without a problem. The engine was a bit snug setting down in, but with the diff dropped down to make room, it slid right in. The throttle body just fits under the defroster intake housing, and the 5.7's fan even fits with the Dakota's radiator set in place!

Things I noticed with the engine set in place:
-The 5-speed transmission mount is different than the Dakota's, so I'll either modify the crossmember, or modify the trans bracket to use a Dakota style mount.
-There is absolutely no room for the IFS front diff. I could build a custom oilpan to clear the diff, but then I'm still left making custom brackets for the diff housing, because the Hemi and transmission have no mounting points for the originals.
-It looks like I would be able to use the Hemi's large plastic intake resonator housing if I wanted to. I thought there wouldn't be enough room for it, but I think it will fit. Its really not a concern though, since I'll probably just attach a K&N filter to the front of the throttle body.

I can't take any pics of the engine set in place right now, because my wife has my camera. I became a Grandpa today!!! (my stepson just had a healthy baby boy), so the camera is in high demand.

Jim

[jmaack727]

Look around theres a guy doing the same thing right now with his 97 2 wheel drive regular cab..... :drool: :drool:

[rtgrouchman]

Nice project...keep us posted! :biggthump

[dakhemi]

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/2407000-2407999/2407166_12_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/2407000-2407999/2407166_11_full.jpg

There she is, sitting in the engine bay. Pretty sight, isn't it? There is still over an inch left between the fan and radiator, and the radiator is actually sitting about 1" away from the support at the top since I didn't have it bolted in place.

I have decided to do the leaf spring/solid axle swap for the front to give the oilpan the clearance I need. In the meantime, I'll remove the front diff and axle shafts and run in 4x2 until I get the conversion done. This means much simpler motor mounts. I'll be out of town tomorrow, but if plans don't change, I should be able to modify the trans crossmember and motormounts Friday, and get the motor bolted in place.

Jim

[sicminds]

thats sic.

[dakhemi]

I once again removed the engine and trans, and pulled the Dakota crossmember for modification. I cut a section out of the center of the Ram crossmember and a much smaller section out of the Dakota crossmember (just for bolt clearance), and welded the Ram section overlapping the Dakota crossmember. Its no work of art, but its strong enough for testing, and when I do the leaf spring conversion in the near future, I'll be making a new crossmember anyway.

I set the engine back in and mounted the trans to the crossmember, and mocked the engine exactly where I want it to be. More measuring, and I found that not only are the Dakota's frame-side motor mounts 1 1/2" wider than the Ram's, they also set back about 3". This may just be because I had a V-6. Well I went over to the Ram's frame (nice to have donor parts on hand), and measured the width of the actual frame rails themselves where the mounts weld on. They are exactly the same as the Dakota's, so the frame-side mounts stick out exactly 3/4" more from the rails on each side. Next step (as soon as the rain stops...the Ram frame is out behind the house) is to carefully cut the mounts off the Ram frame and weld them to the Dakota frame. That should be the end of the fabrication until I do the suspension mods, and I will be able to get down to the business of dealing with the plumbing and electrical.

I did notice that the fuel line connections line up almost perfectly, the exhaust manifolds come down with plenty of clearance to the floor and frame, and now that I was able to do more accurate engine location measuring, I will actually end up with at least 2" between the fan and radiator. The closest clearance is going to be between the Hemi's low oil filter mount and the idler arm mount on the frame. There will be room, but not a lot. That will change when I go to leaf springs, and am able to cut the mount off the frame.

If the rain stops early enough this evening, I should be able to get the motor mounts welded in tonight, and do the final engine install tomorrow morning. That will include installing the t-case and rear driveshaft, and start coming up with a plan for the transfer case shifter. Oh, and at some point I want to rob the floor mounted trans shifter from my Grand Cherokee part's rig and put it in the Dakota. There is something wrong about having a column mounted shifter in a truck with a Hemi. Of course a manual trans would be ideal, but hey, I take what I can get. I already checked on a shift kit for the 5-speed auto, and it sounds like they really improve the shifting a lot, so I'll get one as soon as this thing is on the road. I'll also probably look for a stock replacement bed, since this is no longer my work truck (I have a Ram 2500 Cummins 4x4 for that...also with MORE POWER.)

Jim

[dakhemi]

I just installed the engine for the final time...its all bolted to the new motor mounts. I'm finishing up the redesigned trans crossmember now, just taking a break for the welder to cool (having to use my little 110v mig because my Lincoln needs a new gun). More pics to come...keep watch here and at the link I posted above.

Jim

[WentInsane]

That is awsome. Hope everything goes well.

[dakhemi]

Not a whole lot to update, but I'm fighting with the wiring and computer system at the moment. I ran into one major snag- there is no way to make the Dakota's instruments work with the newer Hemi! The Dakota instrument cluster gets its signals from the PCM using a CCD Bus circuit, a 2-wire system. The '04 Ram uses a PCI Bus, a 1-wire system to signal the instrument cluster. I have a couple options- make up a custom gauge cluster using aftermarket gauges, or attempt to modify the Ram's instrument cluster to work in the Dakota. Either way would require more wiring, with the aftermarket gauges being the simplest and most foolproof. But if I used the Ram's gauges and PCI bus, I could also wire in the Ram's trip computer, since there is no way to make the Dakota's trip computer work with the new engine.

Other than the wiring, the swap was coming along nicely. The engine is all bolted in, most of the plumbing is done, and I went upstate in Maine today to pick up the donor for the front axle and springs- a 1985 Jeep Grand Wagoneer. I'm going to try to go for very little lift, something in the 4" range, unless I'm forced to go taller because of differential clearance issues. But I think 4" should do. I should be able to get that using the stock Jeep front springs. For the rear, I have a set of springs from a 1/2 ton Dodge pickup from the 80's, which should be more firm than the Dakotas (for better towing capability), as well as get more height in the rear. I can fine-tune the height using blocks. But thats another project...

Jim

[T.j.]

This is sweet. What was all that talk we all heard from the day the Hemi came out that it wouldnt fit in the dakotas rails because of the width of it??? Now I see 2 projects actually underway?

[AmberFireDaK]

Wow man! Nice work :biggthump

[elfman]

This is killer!! I can't wait to see the finished product. Looks great so far. :biggthump

[RooKnute]

thats awesome. There was a Red 4x4 Dak with a 5.7L in it at the truck show last weekend!

Def keep us updated!

[N56629]

This is sweet. What was all that talk we all heard from the day the Hemi came out that it wouldnt fit in the dakotas rails because of the width of it??? Now I see 2 projects actually underway?

It seems that there are two kinds of people, those that look to the internet for information and those that try it for themselves.

[dakhemi]

I believe anything is possible with enough time, tools, experience and patience. I'm a little lacking on the patience, but I make up for it with the rest. I also have the type of personality that doesn't like to be told that something can't be done. Tell me its impossible, and it will be done...somehow. I also just like to be different. I almost used my wife's '98 Cherokee for the project...I think that would have been really interesting, and more unique than the Dakota...but its her daily driver, so it was off limits.

Jim

[N56629]

The most difficult part is getting it running and tuned, not installing it.

[dakhemi]

I have a major update. After working on the wiring harness for the better part of 2 weeks (not a ton of hours, I spread it out because I was going crosseyed looking at all those wires!) I finally got the harness roughed out. When I say roughed out, I mean everything is together to make it run by turning the key, most of the lights are hooked up, and most other systems are in place. I left just a few misc. wires disconnected and in place until after testing. I finished that up this morning, ate lunch, and went out to test it. After tracking down 2 fuses that I needed but weren't in place, and 1 ignition feed wire that wasn't hooked up, my wife turned the key while I was up front watching......

AND IT STARTED!!!! It lives!!! :mullet: :banana2:

This has been, by far, the most wiring-intensive project I've ever done. It was a great feeling to get it running. It has a bit of hesitation/throttle delay, but it may need time to relearn after having the PCM unhooked for so long (kind of like the idle learning process after unhooking a battery for a while). I still have to finish up the last of the harness, which should be minor at this point (wiring in a relay for the horn, wiper motor, etc.), and then start on the gauges. I had an inspiration about the speedometer today. The Ram gets its speed signal from a sensor on the transmission itself, while the Dakota has a sensor on the transfer case that I was going to leave unused. Then I thought of my Jeep Wrangler...which has a speedometer that should be easy to install in a panel, and gets it's signal from the same sensor as the Dakota. So I should be able to wire that up easy enough. So the PCM can get it's signal from the transmission, and the speedometer from the t-case. I'll have to do something about a tach, and the other gauges will be a piece of cake.

I was waiting to work on the front suspension until after the engine was running...now I can go out tonight and cut all of the IFS stuff out and test-fit the Wagoneer axle and springs. I'm debating whether to do a shackle reversal and put the shackles at the rear of the springs, but it will depend on how everything lines up. I can play with some height adjustment using the Wagoneer springs by either keeping the axle in the stock location (above the springs) or going SPOA with the axle under the springs. Again, that will depend on clearance issues. I would like to be able to run 34x9.50 Swampers as an optional tire (I have an extra set of 8-bolt wheels and tires for everyday street use), so it will need to sit up a bit. I did some research and found that a 14-bolt axle from a GM cab/chassis dually is 63" wide from WMS to WMS. The Wagoneer axle is about 61" wide, and with the Chevy 3/4 ton hubs and rotors, it will probably end up another 1/2" wider, so it will be very close. And then comes the exhaust...but thats another story!

Jim

[dakhemi]

Short video:
http://www.geocities.com/nhjim10/hemiwmv.wmv
:drive:

Jim

[lilguido1]

That's awesome man - great job :biggthump

Great to see someone with a goal in mind and the motivation to see it through...hat's off to you & keep us updated!

[HemiDak]

Just for a reference if you didn't know, the front of a Dakota is 63" and the back is 65" (WMS-WMS).

[dakhemi]

Although the actual WMS to WMS width is a hair narrower with the Wagoneer axle, the stock wheels have less backspacing, so the overall tire width comes out about 1" or so wider. I got the front axle test-fitted in place today and started on the spring mounts, and I'm quite happy with the width. The outside of the tires come to the very edge of the fenders. I did find out that for the height I want, I'll be going SPOA (as expected) so as soon as the spring mounts are in place I'll start on moving the spring pads.

Jim

[darkstarsk8res]

(sits in amazement whilst wiping the drool off my mouth)

[70Cuda383]

This is sweet. What was all that talk we all heard from the day the Hemi came out that it wouldnt fit in the dakotas rails because of the width of it??? Now I see 2 projects actually underway?


I agree, but...they said that about the new dakotas, not the Gen IIIs...anyone put one in a Gen IV yet to prove them wrong?

I still say it was purely a marketing scheme to get folks to buy the full size trucks instead of the smaller dakota's.

with the same engine and tranny, dropped into a lighter truck, the towing capacity would go up, since the tow vehicle weighs less...that's not good for marketing! (to have a smaller truck that can tow more than a bigger truck!)

--this is of course, within reason, you need a tow vehicle heavy enough to anchor down the load and prevent the load from pushing you off the side of the road..

[flyboy01]

What ever happened? I am dying to hear about the truck, is it finished, how doid the gauges work out? I really want to know because I am seriously considering doing it to my Dakota over the winter.

[Sicminds0088]

See above question

[SCD318]

hows it comin man?

[RagingRedR/T]

WOW awesome job man! As said before it's great to see someone with the motivation to tackle a huge project like this themselves. :beer:

And now the updates?

[dakotaman728]

I am buying all the parts and accessories for my engine swap in a month or two. I think I wont have any problems installing the engine. The only problem I will have will be getting the wiring all hooked up. Does the engine wiring harness effect anything else besides the engine, tranny, computer, and gauges? Thank you so much for taking on this project and please keep us posted. Thanks again and good luck.

What type of metal and how thick should the metal be for motor mount adapter plates?
How long does it usually take to perform an engine swap?
How are you getting your gauges to works?
Do you have any pics of the motor mounts and the tranny mount?
Can an average guy with little engine experience be able to do the swap?
Where did you buy the wiring schematics?

[ACRucrazy]

I too am curious how this is panning out. :mullet:

[SteveBDAK]

I am in the process of putting a 5.7L hemi in my 97 2wd Dakota. I have a shop that is going to work on a bolt in motor mount kit that will allow a 3.9l to be swapped out for a 5.7 hemi. If all goes well, I will have my Hemi in my Dakota by mid March. I provided the shop my test 97 Dakota, hemi and 545rfe. Once the kit is complete, I will pull my 3.9l and use the kit to install my hemi and 545rfe tranny.

[ACRucrazy]

I am in the process of putting a 5.7L hemi in my 97 2wd Dakota. I have a shop that is going to work on a bolt in motor mount kit that will allow a 3.9l to be swapped out for a 5.7 hemi. If all goes well, I will have my Hemi in my Dakota by mid March. I provided the shop my test 97 Dakota, hemi and 545rfe. Once the kit is complete, I will pull my 3.9l and use the kit to install my hemi and 545rfe tranny.

Thats good to hear! :mullet:
I have a 98 2wd 3.9 with 180k on it, that could use a drop in Hemi also :drive:

Keep us updated

[dakotaman728]

Please keep us in touch! Thanks :usa2:

[SteveBDAK]

Well I went by the shop on Friday. It looks like the front sump oil pan is the way to go. It looks like the conversion kit will have motor mounts and a modified transmission crossmember which will allow the use of the 45rfe/545rfe bigger transmission mount.

[dakotaman728]

awesome thanks man! please keep me posted and good luck!

[dakhemi]

Hey! I'm back! I guess people have been dieing to hear about all of the updates. Well sorry to disappoint, but there haven't been any. I put the truck away when cold weather came because I didn't have any place to work on it. Then spring finally came (mid May in these parts) and I had a ton of work to do to my '98 Cherokee 'wheeling rig for a trip to Kentucky in early June. As soon as we got home from that I had work to do to my stepson's vehicle, then I had a motor to put into our newly purchased '00 Durango (wife's rig). The Durango is the reason I got the Cherokee...she got a new(er) vehicle, which meant that I inherit the Cherokee. I'm still stuck wrenching on the Durango until I can figure out the electrical/computer issue. Once thats taken care of, and the wife has her vehicle back, I can think about working on the Dakota again.

As it sits right now, the engine is completely in and running, but the wiring still needs to be sorted out to work with the gauges. I hate to say it, but I think I'm going to go with aftermarket gauges. I was hoping to keep the stock look, but at this point, with a straight front axle and leaf springs, stock is pretty much out of the question anyway.

To answer the question asking about what the computer communicates with on a '97+, EVERYTHING. There are parts of the climate system that are computer controlled, the gauges, the overhead console if you have one, keyless entry if you have it, pretty much any of the more complex electrical items are run by the computer. Some of this can be overcome, some can't.

Jim

[N56629]

Do a nice dash with after market gauges and get rid of the idiot lights and half-assed factory gauges. By the time people get to the inside of truck I doubt you will have avoided spilling the beans and they will already know what you have going under the hood.

[HemiDak]

Just so you know, you CAN get factory gauges to work. My 2000 also shares the 2-wire CCD bus system as your truck. I took a 2001+ gauge cluster from a Dakota/Durango which uses the same 1-wire PCI bus system as the Hemi computer. I rewired a couple wires for the connectors in my truck and now I have a fully operational gauge cluster with the Hemi. Luckily the 2001+ gauges are the same shape and use the same connectors as the 1997-2000.

[dakhemi]

Well folks, its time for the bad news. I lost my job, my wife was forced to go back to school (she was a Head Start teacher, and the feds tightened the requirements), so we are basically both unemployed. I am having to liquidate my stuff, and the guy is coming for the Hemi tomorrow. I'm bummed, because I thought these things were worth more than this. I got a whopping $995 on ebay, only 1 bid, for the whole thing- engine, 45rfe, transfer case, wiring, PCM, accessories, etc. Guy from Ohio is going to put it in his Jeep Wrangler.

I also had to sell the engine from my snowmobile (this time of year it was worth more than the sled...'05 Yamaha RX-1 engine), and am trying to sell the Cymmins out of my '96 Ram. If things don't sell better soon, I may have to sell my Durango that I swapped the 4bt Cummins into.

Anyway...thought I'd let everyone know, since many have come on and requested updates. The work was done, I just didn't have the money to get it finished, and now its that much worse.

Jim

[Fuller]

Wow I am very sorry to hear that. Times are tough but it sounds like you will make it through. Where is Milan in NH? If you are going to part with the rest of the dakota and the durango throw them up on here. I am sure people will buy some parts.

[TexasDak2000]

Any chance that you can tell me which wires to re-run? I have been looking at the gauge pin outs for the 2000 Dak to a 2003/04 Hemi and see the 2 bus for the 2000 and the 1 bus for the 2003/04, but can not figure out what needs to be changed.