AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF vs. ATF+4

[Amsoil Dealer]

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As a substitute for ATF+4, please consider AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid. :onethumb:

Since 1999, due to the special requirements of their automatic transmissions, Chrysler has recommended a unique ATF+4 formulation. In addition, Chrysler has been recommending ATF+4 for all previous makes and models of Chrysler Corporation vehicles. ATF+4 is a VERY highly friction modified fluid.
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AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)

____________________ https://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/images/atf_qt_300pxh.jpg ____________________

Recommended for applications requiring the following specifications:

.......... Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4

AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid is a universal ATF designed to exceed nearly all foreign and domestic performance requirements. It improves fuel efficiency, reduces transmission temperatures by 20 to 50 degrees F and increases transmission life. Provides unsurpassed thermal stability and at least 3 times (and up to 5 times) the life of conventional ATFs. Delivers maximum protection for towing and other severe-duty applications. Formulated with synthetic basestocks and the top-of-the-line additive package, AMSOIL ATF provides top performance, durability & efficiency.

Key Benefits to You:

(1) Cleaner transmission components, (2) More efficient power transfer, (3) Lower Transmission temperatures, (4) Dramatically less transmission wear, (5) Smoother cold temperature operation, (6) Long drain intervals

Compatible Applications:

Nearly all passenger cars (foreign & domestic), Nearly all light duty trucks (including Dodge Dakotas and Durangos).

Recommended for applications requiring the following specifications:

GM Dexron II, Dexron III; Ford Mercon, Mercon V; Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4; Mitsubishi Diamond SP II & III; Allison C-3 & C-4 and TES-295; Caterpillar Powershift Transmission TO-2 & TO-3; Voith Commercial Transmissions; GM Strasbourg (European Imports) and Opel; Applications requiring Honda Z-1 transmission fluids; Toyota Type T and T-IV

https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/websites/graphics/amsoilbar.jpg

[Amsoil Dealer]

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For those of you interested in DIY when Changing Your Transmission Fluid.

If you are going to DIY ... You can pick up a filter kit from AutoZone for about $10 and it contains the filter and gasket. It is not nessasary to use any silicon or gasket sealer just be sure your pan surface is clean. NOTE: It is a messy DIY job.
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Changing Your Transmission Fluid in 12 EASY Steps:

1. Make sure the fluid is warm. Warm up your Dakota so the transmission is at normal operating temperature. Pull the transmission dipstick. Fresh fluid is translucent and cherry red. Some darkening is normal, but if it is reddish brown or mustard color and smells like burnt varnish, it is worn out.

2. Drain the fluid by loosening the pan. Select the correct filter replacement based on pan shape and prepare a large pan to catch the fluid. Then loosen each pan bolt a turn or two and loosen one corner more than rest. Drain mostly from this corner.

3. Finish removing the pan and any gasket material from the pan or case. Avoid scratching the metal and make sure the pan’s gasket surface isn’t bent or distorted.

4. Remove the old filter. Most transmission filters are held in place with a bolt or two, but some are held by a clip. Be careful to include O-Rings or other seals.

5. Install a new filter. Use the clips or bolts from the old filter. Be sure O-Rings, etc. are in place. If the filter has a long intake neck, gently push the neck into place without unseating the O-Ring.

6. Clean the pan thoroughly. Inspect the pan before cleaning. A small amount of fine grey clutch dust is normal. However, if you find metal shavings, there has been transmission damage. Clean the pan with solvent and wipe dry so there is no harmful residue.

7. Position gasket on pan. Some gaskets have four holes slightly smaller than the rest to allow four bolts through the pan and through these smaller holes to hold the gasket in place.

8. Hand tighten pan bolts in a criss-cross pattern. After that, use a torque wrench to tighten bolts to proper ft-lbs as per manufacturer.

9. Refill the transmission using only the amount shown as “refill capacity” in the owners manual (or "AMSOIL Product Selection Guide”), using the type of fluid specified for the vehicle.

10. If doing only a partial fluid replacement, skip to instruction 12 below. If doing a complete fluid replacement, follow the steps in instruction 11.

11. You now have replaced the fluid in the pan. To replace the fluid in the torque converter and oil cooler also, follow these steps.

Step 1. Obtain the total system capacity of the vehicle from the manufacturer. Have this amount readily available.

Step 2. Disconnect the oil cooler line from the oil cooler. As you may not know which is the pressure side and which is the return side, have both directed so the stream of fluid will be directed toward a receptacle.

Step 3. With another person, be prepared to add ATF to the fill area as it is being pumped out of the oil cooler line.

Step 4. Start the engine, and as the old fluid is pumped out, add fresh fluid to the pan.

Step 5. When either the fluid color brightens or the total capacity has been replaced, shut the engine off and re-attach the oil cooler line. All fluids has now been changed.

12. Recheck the fluid level. With the truck on level ground, set the parking brake and the transmission in “Park” or “Neutral.” Let the engine idle for a few minutes. Shift the transmission into different positions before returning the lever to “Park” or “Neutral.” Check the fluid level again and check for leaks.
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This is really a "two-person" DIY operation. The ATF will come out faster than it goes in ... so you may need to stop and restart the engine a few times.

PLEASE CONSIDER ... AMSOIL SYNTHETIC UNIVERSAL ATF.

https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/websites/graphics/amsoilbar.jpg

[Amsoil Dealer]

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AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid
For outstanding performance in transmissions, power steering and hydraulic applications.

____________________ https://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/images/atf_qt_300pxh.jpg ____________________

Package Sizes and Retail and Wholesale Prices - (updated 06/01/07, subject to change)

----------------------------- RETAIL PRICE ------------------------- WHOLESALE PRICE

1-Quart Bottle ........................ $ 9.05 _____ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $ 6.85)
1-Quart Bottles (case of 12) ..... $ 107.40 ___ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $ 78.00)
2.5-Gallon Bottle ..................... $ 85.00 ____ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $ 64.35)
2.5-Gallon Bottles (case of 2) .... $ 168.00 ___ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $ 122.50)
30-Gallon Drum ....................... $ 799.00 ___ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $ 644.00)
55-Gallon Drum ....................... $1,396.00 __ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $ 1125.00)
AMSOIL Hand Pump for Bottles ... $ 11.10 ____ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $ 9.95)
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These prices are as of January 2006 and subject to change without notice. Please inquire about current prices.

SAVE MONEY ----- Become an AMSOIL Preferred Customer (http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12639) (a link for more information)
- which is like joining a Costco - and you can buy Amsoil at WHOLESALE / DEALER COST.

[Glk21c]

Great stuff, wouldn't use anything else in my auto trans, transfer case and power steering

[Amsoil Dealer]

Great stuff, wouldn't use anything else in my auto trans, transfer case and power steering
Thank you for the endorsement Glk21c.
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https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/websites/graphics/topbanner.jpg

[Amsoil Dealer]

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As stated earlier,

Since 1999, due to the special requirements of their automatic transmissions, Chrysler has recommended a unique ATF+4 formulation. In addition, Chrysler has been recommending ATF+4 for all previous makes and models of Chrysler Corporation vehicles.

Chrysler went from ATF+ (MS 7176B) to ATF+4 in less than ten years. Essentially they were trying to make up for shifting problems in some of their transmissions by "tweaking" the frictional properties of their fluid rather than recalling the affected units. The ATF+4 fluid does seem to have solved the problems.
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https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/websites/graphics/amsoilbar.jpg

AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF

I know many Dodge owners that have noticeable and significant improvements switching to Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF. They state that the transmission characteristics are better than when it was new.

APPLICATIONS

AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid is completely compatible with other synthetic and petroleum automatic transmission fluids. AMSOIL ATF is a universal, multi-functional fluid that greatly reduces the need for specialized fluid inventories and the possibilities of misapplication.

AMSOIL ATF is recommended for transmission, hydraulic and other applications requiring any of the following specifications:

GM DEXRON® II & III, Ford MERCON®, MERCON® V, Chrysler ATF+ through ATF+4®, Honda Z-1 (Not for use in CVT transmissions), Toyota Type T and T-IV, Mitsubishi/Hyundai Diamond SP II & III, Allison C-3, C-4, Caterpillar TO-2
Voith G607, G1363, ZF TE-ML 14A, 14B & 14C, Mercedes Benz 236.1, 236.6, 236.7, 236.9, BMW 7045E, JWS 3309, Vickers I-286S & M-2950S

Also excellent for power steering units that use ATF. Not for use in CVT transmissions.

SERVICE LIFE

AMSOIL Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid is recommended for use up to 60,000 miles under severe service and up to 100,000 miles under normal service* or according to the vehicle manufacturer recommended intervals, whichever is longer. AMSOIL recommends thoroughly draining the transmission and flushing with new AMSOIL ATF to achieve a minimum 90% purity of new transmission fluid. Drain intervals may be extended further with oil analysis.
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GENERAL TRANSMISSION INFORMATION

SOME THINGS CHANGE

Today's transmission pretty much serves the same function as always, but now there are more components. In addition to clutch packs, plates, gears, valves, and bearings, we have solenoids and sensors, and a lot more orifices where contaminants can cause blockages that interfere with performance.

One thing that has not changed is that transmission fluid remains a necessary "component" of the transmission. And fluid quality is more important than ever before.

Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) not only cools working parts and reduces wear, it also serves as a hydraulic fluid to actuate valves used for shifting. An argument can be made that no other component is as important as your ATF.

WHAT ELSE IS NEW?

The requirements placed on ATF have changed in other ways as well. Because of the aerodynamics in many of today's vehicles, the overall drivetrain is simply not getting cooled off the way it used to. For this reason, transmissions run hotter, so hot in fact that interior carpets have caught fire during some tests where SUVs were pulling heavy loads.

Furthermore, because of the sensors and solenoids, fluid cleanliness has become an absolute requirement. Debris and gunk in the transmission fluid will cause interference and literally do damage in ways that less sophisticated transmissions never experienced before.

The biggest change in today's transmissions comes from the fact that the shifting is no longer driven by mechanical action, but rather is controlled by electromechanical hydraulic solenoids (valves).

The result is that the smallest amount of debris can clog or restrict solenoids causing them to not work properly or even burn out.

In the past it was the clutches themselves that physically wore out, but now the tranny can fail prematurely while everything else is fine because clutches aren't getting the correct pressure to keep from slipping. Or even worse, the computer brain signals instructions for two competing gears to engage at the same time. For this reason you need a high quality Synthetic ATF that has a better additive package to hold material in suspension. And by reducing friction this synthetic fluid reduces wear so that less wear material is left floating around in there.

THE SYNTHETIC SOLUTION

As with the engine, so with the transmission ... Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluids offer superior protection, as well as cleaner and cooler operation. The heat issue cited above is a very real problem. Synthetics reduce friction and keep transmissions cooler.

With regard to cleanliness, synthetic fluids are less vulnerable to oxidation and breakdown. They keep orifices clean, and the tranny experiences smoother operation.

CLOSING THOUGHT

A Premium Synthetic ATF will go double the lifespan of conventional transmission fluids, and will make a huge difference in the performance of your vehicles.

This is an often neglected area where it really pays to get educated. Most motorists do not realize how vital these drivetrain fluids are for keeping their vehicles on the road. Especially SUVs and light trucks that are used to haul heavy loads or pull heavy trailers.

As in most areas of life we either pay now or pay later. Purchasing Synthetic ATF is a small price to pay when you can gain 100,000 extra miles at the other end of the service life of your car or light truck.

All that I ask is that you Consider Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF for all of your automatic transmissions.

https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/websites/graphics/amsoilbar.jpg

[Shatto]

515,000 miles. Same transmission. Always used Amsoil ATF.

[SmokinCummins]

This is one place I really have to disagree with you, Steve.

Automatic trannys are basically planetary gear trains, bushings, and wet clutch packs. While synthetic oil is better for the gears and bushings, it is not as good for the clutches. Slick oil will cause a tranny to slip where petroleum worked fine.

ATF+4 is a synthetic, but it is also specifically formulated for our trannys, so I assume the addative package addresses this. I have seen several trannys not hold horsepower when switched to synthetic where petroleum worked fine. That includes several different brands, including Amsoil universal ATF.

The problem is obviously worse on modified trucks, vehicles in competition, or trucks that are worked hard.

Shatto, a 3.9 does not have enough power to hurt a tranny, and highway miles is the easiest service a tranny can have.

[Amsoil Dealer]

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Okay SmokinCummins,

I read your post but I don't understand your phrase "Slick Oil". There is an old myth floating around that synthetic's are "slicker" than petroleum, but that is not the case. So it has to be another reason ... and not the fault of Amsoil ATF.
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Automatic Transmission Fluids - What are they ???

Automatic Transmission Fluids are a thin dino (crude oil), sythetic or blend "base" oil with anti-foam, anti-oxidation, red dye and other additives, with a very high level of dispersants and little or no detergents.

THE MAIN DIFFERENCE

The main difference between one type of ATF and another is the amount of friction modifier additive for control of servo clutch action. Type F contains no Friction Modifier, Dexron/Mercon contain a moderate amount and Chrysler "ATF+__" contains the most. The transmission does not get "dirty" inside like an engine, ... but it does need to keep the clutch band particles, etc., from settling and clogging valve, passages, etc. Basically, ATF is a hydraulic oil ... with the specific additive package for transmissions, plus the red dye for identification.

SPECIAL NOTE -- Amsoil did offer a Synthetic ATF specifically for ATF +3/+4 applications about six (6) years ago. However once they were able to integrate this additive chemistry into their Dexron/Mercon formulation, they discontinued making this second fluid.
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I know MANY (perhaps a few hundred) Dodge owners that have noticeable and significant improvements switching to Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF ... including my cousin who owns a Dodge Dealership - and he and his Son-In-Law who own a NAPA Store (and Amsoil is the biggest display). They all state that the transmission characteristics are better than when it was new.
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WHY SYNTHETIC ATF vs. NON-SYNTHETIC's or BLENDS ???

In General ... A 100% TRUE "Synthetic" ATF:

FLOWS BETTER WHEN COLD, DOES NOT GET AS HOT, AND BREAKS DOWN AT A HIGHER TEMPERATURE ... than conventional crude petroleum ATF, and thus SYNTHETIC ATF's HAVE A LONGER WORKING LIFE.

Specifically, ... AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF ...

- improves fuel efficiency
- reduces transmission temperatures
- increases transmission life
- provides unsurpassed thermal stability
- and offers up to five times the service life of conventional ATFs
- maximum protection for towing and other severe-duty applications.
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AMSOIL SYNTHETIC UNIVERSAL ATF resists thermal and oxidative degradation up to THREE TO FIVE TIMES LONGER than conventional transmission fluids do. It protects clutches, planetary gears, valves, pumps and seals from damaging sludge and varnish deposits. AMSOIL ATF helps prevent component overheating and ensures cooler, smoother transmission operation.

AMSOIL SYNTHETIC UNIVERSAL ATF outperforms petroleum fluids in low temperature fluidity. In fact, AMSOIL ATF offers three times the cold temperature fluidity required by current automatic transmission fluid specifications. AMSOIL ATF provides easier starting, faster warm-ups, smoother shifting and improved fuel economy.

AMSOIL SYNTHETIC UNIVERSAL ATF is formulated for EXTENDED DRAIN INTERVALS. Transmissions usually operate under severe service conditions. They are subjected to extensive idling, frequent short trips, cold temperature driving, sustained hot weather driving or trailer towing. When conventional transmission fluid is used, it should be changed every 15,000 to 30,000 miles. AMSOIL ATF should be changed at intervals up to three times longer than the recommendations of the vehicle manufacturer.

AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF is completely compatible with other synthetic and petroleum automatic transmission fluids. AMSOIL ATF is a universal, multifunctional fluid and greatly reduces the need for specialized fluid inventories and the possibilities of misapplication.
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Amsoil Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF).

Recommended for applications requiring the following specifications:

Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4
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For Vehicles That Do Not Require MOPAR ATF+ ... (as an FYI).

Granted ... transmissions from different manufacturers use various types of clutch pack materials. So ... "Is it possible to formulate a single fluid that will behave differently in GM, Ford and Chrysler transmissions?" The specifications for friction characteristics are for how the fluid behaves in the particular application, given the types of materials used in that transmission. They are not the stand alone properties of the fluid, which is where I think the misunderstanding comes in.

Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF ... is truly "Universal" :beer:
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In Closing ...

Information Supplied To me By An Amsoil Engineer (in 2004) ...

"AMSOIL SYNTHETIC UNIVERSAL ATF is far superior to an ATF blended with hydro treated naphthenic oil. Secondly it uses a premium additive chemistry that meets the static and dynamic coefficient of friction parameters to meet ATF+4 requirements. It also meets the coefficients of friction parameters for MERCON, MERCON V, DEXRON III, and Diamond SPIII.

Although the additive chemistry may be slightly different than the exclusive MOPAR fluid from the factory, it still follows suit with the parameters set forth by Daimler Chrysler. All AMSOIL lubricants are designed to improve performance and increase protection to engine and transmission components.

Further more, Chrysler developed the +4 spec to "fix" an inherent chattering problem with the Chrysler transmissions. That is the sole reason why Chrysler recommends +4 fluid and this is why nobody offers a +4 fluid. On the other hand there are fluids that are far superior to Chryslers +4 specs, including ours!"

We didn’t just one day decide to make this claim just for the heck of it. This was very carefully researched and we have been developing superior fluids for over 30 years. We certainly would not recommend fluids we knew were going to cause problems. Why would anyone who wants to stay in business??"

https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/websites/graphics/amsoilbar.jpg

[SmokinCummins]

Steve, Maybe slicker is not the proper word. I'm just stating what I have experianced in extreme applications that work perfect with petroleum after switching to synthetic.

[SmokinCummins]

Maybe better lubrication is a better way to word it. Synthetic lubricates better which is good for everything - pump life, valves react better, servos react better, planets, bushings, thrust washers all get better lubrication. The vulnerable OD section gets better lubrication, the clutch packs slide with less effort when not applied. Synthetic is good for keeping the entire tranny better lubricated for long life and cooler operation. The problem that arises is the clutches also slide easier when applied. In a 4?Rh/Re there are 4 clutch "units" that must hold without slipping to run down the highway in OD. Typically the Converter clutch is the weak link in the 47/48 trannys. These trannys are also known for internal leakage, and an excessive leak will make a clutch unit less strong. A tranny on the edge such as one that has an internal problem, or one that is behind a modified engine, or one towing heavy in od will work fine with petroleum, but switching to synthetic may just put it over the Edge.

I have seen it happen more than once, but I typically deal with modified, or heavily worked vehicles.

On a teardown of a high mileage tranny, you will find that the petroleum lubricates fine. Usually, the pump, bushings, thrust washers, planetaries and shafts are ALL fine and reusable. The exception is the OD section. Typically, the Spring Retainer and sun gear need replaced. When I build one, I do things to the od section to flood this area with trans oil.

From what I have seen, synthetic will not cure any issue in these trannys with the exception of possibly the issue of the sun gear and torrington bearing eating into the race, but not the teeth biting into the race. It will not help with a weak seal in the high/reverse clutch, or the weak od clutch, or solenoid/governor failures.

Actually, it would probably help with the solenoid/governor failures for the people that never change their oil.

[Amsoil Dealer]

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AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)

__________________ https://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/images/atf_qt_300pxh.jpg __________________

Package Sizes and Retail and Wholesale Prices - (updated 10/01/07, subject to change)

----------------------------- RETAIL PRICE ------------------------- WHOLESALE PRICE

1-Quart Bottle ....................... $ 9.30 ______ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $ 7.00)
1-Quart Bottles (case of 12) .... $ 110.40 ____ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $ 79.80)
2.5-Gallon Bottle .................... $ 86.75 _____ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $ 65.65)
2.5-Gallon Bottles (case of 2) ... $ 171.50 ____ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $ 125.00)
16-Gallon Keg ........................ $ 495.00 ____ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $ 383.00)
30-Gallon Drum ...................... $ 827.00 ____ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $ 666.00)
55-Gallon Drum ...................... $1,447.00 ___ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $1,166.00)
275-Gallon Tote ..................... $7,185.00 ___ (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price = $5,780.00)

SAVE MONEY ----- Become an AMSOIL Preferred Customer (http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12639) (link)
and buy all of your Amsoil Products at WHOLESALE / DEALER COST.

[nick02]

What type of base stock oil do you use in your universal atf? III V IV?

[Jecht]

does mopar give their seal of approval on this amsoil univeral tranny fluid? if not I would suggest not to use this stuff while during the warranty of your truck. becuse if you need tranny work and find out your not using ATF+4 then they will void you right there. not saying it isnt good tranny fluid. just safe than sorry. dont want a big tranny bill looking you in the face and you thinking I know I should of used the atf+4

last I heard their tranny fluid isnt approved by dodge as a replacement fluid in their trannys.

[Amsoil Dealer]

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What type of base stock oil do you use in your universal atf? III V IV?nick02,

Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF uses a Group IV (100%) synthetic base stock. Factory fill and replacement ATF+4 is a Group III base stock (a hydroprocessed mineral oil).

does mopar give their seal of approval on this amsoil univeral tranny fluid? if not I would suggest not to use this stuff while during the warranty of your truck. becuse if you need tranny work and find out your not using ATF+4 then they will void you right there. not saying it isnt good tranny fluid. just safe than sorry. dont want a big tranny bill looking you in the face and you thinking I know I should of used the atf+4.Jecht,

The manufacturer (Dodge) and/or Dodge Dealership Service Departments CAN NOT void warranty coverage because you did not use OEM factory fill replacement fluids -- as long as the replacement fluids meet specifications. AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF has been formulated to meet or exceed ATF+4 specifications.

last I heard their tranny fluid isnt approved by dodge as a replacement fluid in their trannys.

WRONG ... and (some) Dodge Dealerships Now Carry Amsoil (http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13077) (link)

AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF has been formulated to meet or exceed ATF+4 specifications. It is fully supported through documented testing. It is recommended for and can be used in ALL of the applications listed on the label (including Chrysler ATF+ through ATF+4). PERIOD.

AMSOIL would not make the recommendation on our label if they were not completely confident of our position on this matter. While we cannot control what individuals (Jecht) or Dealerships say about this subject, we can and do insure that consumers can use our product with complete confidence and without risk.

If a Dealership is misinformed on this issue and actually denies a manufacturers warranty coverage because of the use of AMSOIL ATF Fluid in one of the applications for which it is recommended by AMSOIL, the AMSOIL Warranty coverage would apply. The consumers transmission would be repaired under the AMSOIL Warranty. AMSOIL (and its insurance company) would legally pursue the dealership or the manufacturer to recover Amsoil's costs.

AMSOIL SYNTHETIC UNIVERSAL ATF APPLICATIONS

AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF is completely compatible with other synthetic and petroleum automatic transmission fluids. AMSOIL ATF is recommended for transmission, hydraulic and other applications requiring any of the following specifications:

- GM DEXRON® II, III & VI
- Ford MERCON®, MERCON® V & SP
- Chrysler ATF+ through ATF+4
- Toyota Type T and T-IV
- Honda Z-1 (Not for use in CVT transmissions)
- Mitsubishi/Hyundai Diamond SP II & III
- Allison C-3, C-4
- Caterpillar TO-2
- Voith G607, G1363
- ZF TE-ML 14A, 14B & 14C
- Mercedes Benz 236.1, 236.2, 236.6, 236.7, 236.9
- BMW 7045E
- NAG 1 & 2
- JWS 3309
- LT 71141 (ESSO)
- Nissan Matic D, J & K
- Vickers I-286S & M-2950S
- Excellent for power steering units that use ATF.

Thank you.

[tosterho]

I need to get a case of ammsoil atf. What would the price for the cheapest membership, fluid, and the filters (I think you guys use wix) shipped to me? I have the 45RFE tranny. I only use ammsoil in the tranny, p/s, diffs and transfer case so I don't need a long membership in the fact I won't change those very often. Thanks....Todd

P.S. I am installing a shift kit and a external tranny cooler that is why I need a whole case. Probably won't need that much but I want to be on the safe side.

[Dodge Dude]

I love the debate about wether Amsoil is a worthy lubricant! I have been a faithful user of AMSOIL products for 15 years. And where I work I get alot of information on who uses what lubricants. If you have ever heard of North American Diesel Performance (NADP) OR North American Powertrain Components (NAPC). The company builds up diesel pickups from mild to wild....(nadp.ca)They are hardcore users of AMSOIL Universal ATF among other Lubricants that Amsoil offers. They use AMSOIL ATF in ALL transmission builds and rebuilds and require this to be used as part of their warranty. As the owner of the Edmonton shop told me personally "We have tried all brands of synthetic ATFs, but NOTHING absolutely NOTHING, compares to the performance and protection we and our customers get from AMSOIL ATF.
So from a company that spends their time building complex parts for complex components, and rebuilding burned up transmissions. And they exclusively use AMSOIL ATF well I'll take their word for it!

[N56629]

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Jecht,

The manufacturer (Dodge) and/or Dodge Dealership Service Departments CAN NOT void warranty coverage because you did not use OEM factory fill replacement fluids -- as long as the replacement fluids meet specifications. AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF has been formulated to meet or exceed ATF+4 specifications.



WRONG ... and (some) Dodge Dealerships Now Carry Amsoil (http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13077) (link)

AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF has been formulated to meet or exceed ATF+4 specifications. It is fully supported through documented testing. It is recommended for and can be used in ALL of the applications listed on the label (including Chrysler ATF+ through ATF+4). PERIOD.

AMSOIL would not make the recommendation on our label if they were not completely confident of our position on this matter. While we cannot control what individuals (Jecht) or Dealerships say about this subject, we can and do insure that consumers can use our product with complete confidence and without risk.

If a Dealership is misinformed on this issue and actually denies a manufacturers warranty coverage because of the use of AMSOIL ATF Fluid in one of the applications for which it is recommended by AMSOIL, the AMSOIL Warranty coverage would apply. The consumers transmission would be repaired under the AMSOIL Warranty. AMSOIL (and its insurance company) would legally pursue the dealership or the manufacturer to recover Amsoil's costs.



Does anyone know of Amsoil ever backing up their warranty? This guy certainly isn't aware of it.

I had the 545RFE tranny in my 03 Dak go out while running Amsoil Universal ATF, needle bearing failure in one of the planetaries. I sent an oil sample to BlackStone to see how the Amsoil ATF held up and they said it was oxidized, should have been replaced long ago and was missing boron, an essential additive in ATF+4. With this info, I sent Amsoil an oil sample, Blackstone's report and the failed part for warranty reimbursement.

What do you think happened? They ran the ATF sample through another lab (Oil Analyzers, Amsoil's go-to lab) and the ATF was reported as fine for continued use, warranty claim denied. Kind of odd the ATF was fine for continued use since there was 49K on the ATF (Amsoil states 50K as a minimum service interval), there was all sorts of fine suspended debris in the ATF and another independent lab stated the fluid had been overrun.

I'm sticking to ATF+4 and Dodge's recommended service interval from now on."

http://www.dodgedakotas.com/boards/per/13413-1.html

[tosterho]

I've used it for a while now and haven't had any problems. Has anybody heard anything about barium (whatever that is) not being in the ammsoil like the Chrylser ATF+4 is supposed to have.

[Amsoil Dealer]

Does anyone know of Amsoil ever backing up their warranty? This guy certainly isn't aware of it.N56629,

:huh:

What's ups with the "back-handed" attack on Amsoil without any of your own personal experience to back up what you posted?

:huh:

All you did here was cut-and-paste a post from a "non-registered guest" on another Dakota truck website (www.dodgedakotas.com) that has become overrun with absurd posts including racial slurs as attacks, sex talk as attacks, vulger pictures, and the flaming of a site sponsor (me and Amsoil) ... on what is supposed to be a truck site. The "non-registered guest" who posted that did not provide any information (link, direct contact with me so that I could follow up, proof of a letter to Amsoil and response from Amsoil, or anything else credible) to back up his post so it must be discredited unless proven. Why? Because it is an anonymous post in a public forum without documentation.

One of the reasons I switched to this website was the fact they have a NO UNDUE FLAMING OF SITE SPONSORS OR VENDORS policy in place. However, if anyone has a particular complaint with a vendor they are encouraged to post in in the Vendor Feedback forum. I can also be reached via PM or email. If you visit my Vendor Feedback thread you will notice that I have a very good reputation on this site. ALSO ... if anyone has a question or complaint, I can also be reached via email or a PM message on this site..

As mentioned earlier ... (some) Dodge Dealerships Now Carry Amsoil (http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13077) (link). In addition, my uncle and bro-in-law own two (2) Dodge Dealerships (and a NAPA store that sells Amsoil) and have installed Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF in many Dodge transmissions (or sold Amsoil to Dodge owners for DIY transmission service) without any problems whatsoever.

I've noticed lately that Amsoil has come under attack on this site and I noticed that someone even created a "signature picture" with the kid pissing on the Amsoil logo. I have also been attacked personally. I don't think the site owner would think too highly of such shennagians from his registered members.

I have never said Amsoil is the best for all drivetrains under all circumstances. What I do state is that Amsoil offers a superior product which is competitively priced. And I close by simply asking that everyone PLEASE CONSIDER AMSOIL the next time they change their fluids and filters.

Time to switch another vehicle to AMSOIL _ :worky: (another satisfied customer)

Thank you,

Steven :drive:

[N56629]

N56629,

:huh:

What's ups with the "back-handed" attack on Amsoil without any of your own personal experience to back up what you posted?

:huh:

All you did here was cut-and-paste a post from a "non-registered guest" on another Dakota truck website (www.dodgedakotas.com) that has become overrun with absurd posts including racial slurs as attacks, sex talk as attacks, vulger pictures, and the flaming of a site sponsor (me and Amsoil) ... on what is supposed to be a truck site. The "non-registered guest" who posted that did not provide any information (link, direct contact with me so that I could follow up, proof of a letter to Amsoil and response from Amsoil, or anything else credible) to back up his post so it must be discredited unless proven. Why? Because it is an anonymous post in a public forum without documentation.

One of the reasons I switched to this website was the fact they have a NO UNDUE FLAMING OF SITE SPONSORS OR VENDORS policy in place. However, if anyone has a particular complaint with a vendor they are encouraged to post in in the Vendor Feedback forum. I can also be reached via PM or email. If you visit my Vendor Feedback thread you will notice that I have a very good reputation on this site. ALSO ... if anyone has a question or complaint, I can also be reached via email or a PM message on this site..

As mentioned earlier ... (some) Dodge Dealerships Now Carry Amsoil (http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13077) (link). In addition, my uncle and bro-in-law own two (2) Dodge Dealerships (and a NAPA store that sells Amsoil) and have installed Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF in many Dodge transmissions (or sold Amsoil to Dodge owners for DIY transmission service) without any problems whatsoever.

I've noticed lately that Amsoil has come under attack on this site and I noticed that someone even created a "signature picture" with the kid pissing on the Amsoil logo. I have also been attacked personally. I don't think the site owner would think too highly of such shennagians from his registered members.

I have never said Amsoil is the best for all drivetrains under all circumstances. What I do state is that Amsoil offers a superior product which is competitively priced. And I close by simply asking that everyone PLEASE CONSIDER AMSOIL the next time they change their fluids and filters.

Time to switch another vehicle to AMSOIL _ :worky: (another satisfied customer)

Thank you,

Steven :drive:


You accusations and personal attacks are uncalled for. I've never attacked you or flamed you. Asking that you back up your claims is perfectly legitimate. If everything "must be discredited unless proven" it doesn't say a whole lot about what you say.

Telling everyone that they have to have a personal experience and provide proof that experience is rediculous. I have no reason to disbelieve the person I quoted and neither do you. The person outlined his experience in detail and you merely dismissed it.

When you tell people, that are concerned about their warranty, that Amsoil backs their product you should be ready to backup your statements. That certainly shouldn't be too much too ask.

I think I'll take your advice and ask this guy to provide some sort of proof such as a claim number.

[tosterho]

my only concern was I want to replace the majority of my fluid with ammsoil since I have liked it but am worried that if I do something might fail. Will it probably not but I don't have a ton of money to throw into a new transmission and I have no more warranty.

Steven I think your a really nice and great guy but if my tranny failed and hypothetically speaking it was due to the ammsoil fluid I highly doubt that ammsoil would take the blame. Most people know its great stuff but they never seem to say that anything bad has ever happened while using any of their products and that is truly unbelievable. The products weren't made by God so I know somewhere something failed.

That attack or comment or whatever you want to call it was not really directed to you steve but more to ammsoil.

[tosterho]

What I want to hear is people whose trannys required atf+4 not old ones who followed the tsb's, that have a lot of miles with this stuff and if it was ok. I don't mean a few thousand but like 30 to 50K with this stuff. Thanks for everyones help and listening to me:blahblah:

[nick02]

I will try hard not to "flame" amsoil as you, the sponser, are endowed with certain unalienable rights given to you by sincityrt and I would like to thank amsoil for being a site sponser.
However I dislike amsoil because of the fact you’ve been slapping mobil 1 and castoil on the wrists for using a groupIII oil as synthetic when you’re xl series is a group III oil (and only the xl and pco oils amsoil is api certified)

Hydrocracked oil: Anyways all over the forum you’re bashing group 3 base stocks (the hydrocracks) when here’s an article from the June issue of the AMSOIL Action News that states you’re company is now useing group 3 stocks in the xl series of you’re synthetic lubricants and refer to you’re group III basestocks (hydrocracked) as quote ”synthetics”.
So why do you make fun of mobil and castrol even though your company stopped down to their level just to obtain api certification? Source: http://www.upmpg.com/changes_xl-7500.htm Action News: AMSOIL will be using a different formula for its XL-7500 Motor Oils. Why did AMSOIL change the formula?
Amatuzio: Our XL-7500 oils are the oils of choice in the retail oil change market, and primarily because of warranty concerns the customers in this market require API-certified. In order to obtain API SL/ILSAC GF-3 certification and still remain cost-competitve with the other oils sold at retail oil change outlets, we had to change to Group III basestocks. To obtain API certification with our top tier basestocks would have priced our Dealers out of the market.
Action News: Are Group III basestocks synthetic?
Amatuzio: Yes, they are synthetic. Group III base oils are highly processed oils and were classified as synthetic in 1999. That year, the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled in a complaint by Mobil Oil Corp. against Castrol North America Inc. Castrol claimed its product, Synthec, was a synthetic oil even though it had used Group III base oils since 1997.



API liscensing: It’s told in the manual to look for the api logo specifically the one that says “for use in gasoline engines” that was put in there for a reason dodge is not dumb and they trust API and we all should too . So lately I found api’s website which shows the companies that license products under API http://eolcs.api.org/ let’s see what amsoil’s line up is shall we?
Brand Name SAE Viscosity Grade Service Category Current Expiration Date
PCO 15W-40 CI-4/SL** August 8, 2008
XL 10W-30 SM/CF* August 8, 2008
XL 10W-40 SM/CF August 8, 2008
XL 5W-20 SM/CF* August 8, 2008
XL 5W-30 SM/CF* August 8, 2008
Wow you only have five oil’s out of twenty six amsoil has to sell certified by API for use in gasoline engines what are you putting in you’re other oils brotha, God only knows (probily 1/2 the bottle is phospur to help clog up you're cat).
Now let’s look at royal purple
Brand Name SAE Viscosity Grade Service Category Current Expiration Date
ROYAL PURPLE 10W-30 CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 10W-30 SL* August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 10W-40 CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 15W-40 CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL** August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 20W-50 CF,CF-4/SJ August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 30 CF,CF-2/SJ August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 40 CF,CF-2/SJ August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 50 CF,CF-2/SJ August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 5W-20 SL* August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 5W-30 SL* August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 5W-40 SM/CF August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE DD 40 CF-2 August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE LONG RIDER 10W-30 CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE LONG RIDER 15W-40 CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL** August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE LONG RIDER 40 CF,CF-2 August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE LONG RIDER DD 40 CF-2 August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE LONG RIDER PLUS 10W-30 CI-4/SL August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE LONG RIDER PLUS 15W-40 CI-4/SL August 8, 2008
Wow that’s like their entire lineup isn’t it?

So in conclusion I don’t like you bashing other synthetic oil's when you're compinies bread and butter is the same as theirs and I don’t like mlm marketing and that’s why dislike amsoil. In fact, some other forums have so many amsoil problems they adopt policies against it I think it’s funny, anyways about me getting into trouble I don’t think I’m flaming here I know my membership is a privilege, NOT a right, as this is a private forum, if sin city r/t wishes me to remove my avatar I would be more then happy to.

[Amsoil Dealer]

__________________

my only concern was I want to replace the majority of my fluid with ammsoil since I have liked it but am worried that if I do something might fail. Will it probably not but I don't have a ton of money to throw into a new transmission and I have no more warranty.

Steven I think your a really nice and great guy but if my tranny failed and hypothetically speaking it was due to the ammsoil fluid I highly doubt that ammsoil would take the blame. Most people know its great stuff but they never seem to say that anything bad has ever happened while using any of their products and that is truly unbelievable. The products weren't made by God so I know somewhere something failed.

That attack or comment or whatever you want to call it was not really directed to you steve but more to amsoil.tosterho,

I sent you a PM right after your first post with our contact information. The choice is yours as to whether you want to use Amsoil or not. I gave you our PERSONAL toll-free 1-800# (not Amsoil Corporate but our own 1-800# which rings into our office) so call us anytime if you have any questions.

Thanks,

Steven

__________________

Nick,

Before I even begin to respond, your comments are totally out of line and this is an ATF thread , not a bash Amsoil thread. If you have a grief, why don't you PM me or send me an email. Your post added nothing to the topic of conversation which is ATF. That being said, I will respectifully respond to your comments. By the way, I noticed your picture icon pissing on the Amsoil logo. How cute! You must chuckle every time you see it.

Thank You,

Steven
__________________

I will try hard not to "flame" amsoil as you, the sponser, are endowed with certain unalienable rights given to you by sincityrt and I would like to thank amsoil for being a site sponser. However I dislike amsoil because of the fact you’ve been slapping mobil 1 and castoil on the wrists for using a groupIII oil as synthetic when you’re xl series is a group III oil (and only the xl and pco oils amsoil is api certified)

nick02,

My comment was "One of the reasons I switched to this website was the fact they have a NO UNDUE FLAMING OF SITE SPONSORS OR VENDORS policy in place."


Hydrocracked oil: Anyways all over the forum you’re bashing group 3 base stocks (the hydrocracks) when here’s an article from the June issue of the AMSOIL Action News that states you’re company is now useing group 3 stocks in the xl series of you’re synthetic lubricants and refer to you’re group III basestocks (hydrocracked) as quote ”synthetics”. So why do you make fun of mobil and castrol even though your company stopped down to their level just to obtain api certification? Source: http://www.upmpg.com/changes_xl-7500.htm Action News: AMSOIL will be using a different formula for its XL-7500 Motor Oils. Why did AMSOIL change the formula? Amatuzio: Our XL-7500 oils are the oils of choice in the retail oil change market, and primarily because of warranty concerns the customers in this market require API-certified. In order to obtain API SL/ILSAC GF-3 certification and still remain cost-competitve with the other oils sold at retail oil change outlets, we had to change to Group III basestocks. To obtain API certification with our top tier basestocks would have priced our Dealers out of the market. Action News: Are Group III basestocks synthetic? Amatuzio: Yes, they are synthetic. Group III base oils are highly processed oils and were classified as synthetic in 1999. That year, the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled in a complaint by Mobil Oil Corp. against Castrol North America Inc. Castrol claimed its product, Synthec, was a synthetic oil even though it had used Group III base oils since 1997.


I have never recommended our XL line to anyone ... and I still advise people to stay away from Group III lubricants (including our XL line) for many reasons which I have mentioned before so I won't mention here again.


API liscensing: It’s told in the manual to look for the api logo specifically the one that says “for use in gasoline engines” that was put in there for a reason dodge is not dumb and they trust API and we all should too . So lately I found api’s website which shows the companies that license products under API ttp://eolcs.api.org/ let’s see what amsoil’s line up is shall we?
Brand Name SAE Viscosity Grade Service Category Current Expiration Date
PCO 15W-40 CI-4/SL** August 8, 2008
XL 10W-30 SM/CF* August 8, 2008
XL 10W-40 SM/CF August 8, 2008
XL 5W-20 SM/CF* August 8, 2008
XL 5W-30 SM/CF* August 8, 2008
Wow you only have five oil’s out of twenty six amsoil has to sell certified by API for use in gasoline engines what are you putting in you’re other oils brotha, God only knows (probily 1/2 the bottle is phospur to help clog up you're cat).
Now let’s look at royal purple
Brand Name SAE Viscosity Grade Service Category Current Expiration Date
ROYAL PURPLE 10W-30 CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 10W-30 SL* August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 10W-40 CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 15W-40 CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL** August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 20W-50 CF,CF-4/SJ August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 30 CF,CF-2/SJ August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 40 CF,CF-2/SJ August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 50 CF,CF-2/SJ August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 5W-20 SL* August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 5W-30 SL* August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE 5W-40 SM/CF August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE DD 40 CF-2 August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE LONG RIDER 10W-30 CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE LONG RIDER 15W-40 CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL** August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE LONG RIDER 40 CF,CF-2 August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE LONG RIDER DD 40 CF-2 August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE LONG RIDER PLUS 10W-30 CI-4/SL August 8, 2008
ROYAL PURPLE LONG RIDER PLUS 15W-40 CI-4/SL August 8, 2008

Wow that’s like their entire lineup isn’t it?

NO, that is not RP's entire line of oils and some RP oils are not API. While you are at it go look up some of the other top synthetic lubricant companies motor oils. You will find they are not API either. If you want to discuss API I will be glad to tell you how useless their "minimum" ratings are. FOR THE RECORD --- ALL AMSOIL MOTOR OILS "EXCEED" THE MINIMUM API SPECIFICATIONS!.

I know that Amsoil has a Group III line (the XL Series) and it was developed specifically for the Quickie Lubes who would not use anything that was not API and who needed a lower price point. I have never recommended the XL line to any of my customers. We also have one (1) semi-synthetic diesel oil which is API and was specifically designed for one of Amsoil's major customers that requested it.

By the way, you only mentioned Amsoil and Royal Purple. Are you the guy who has taken over the www.dodgedakotas.com forum with all the nonsensical RP posts? Not making an accusation - but it just seems a little suspect when Redline is not API and other top-shelf synthetic's are not API but they did not get a mention in your post - just Amsoil and Royal Rurple. What is your association and infactuation with Royal Purple. Are you a salesman / dealer for Royal Rurple? Just curious!

API CERTIFICATION

In every owners manual, except for the exotic vehicles like Ferrari (my bro-in-law owns one of these dealerships as well and they specifically specify a certain racing oil) they state that owners are required to use oils which "meet" specific API service classifications. THAT IS THE ONLY MANDATE. Synthetic lubricants which "meet or exceed" current API certification service requirements are perfectly suited for use in any vehicle. ALL AMSOIL MOTOR OILS "EXCEED" THE MINIMUM API SPECIFICATIONS!

So in conclusion I don’t like you bashing other synthetic oil's when you're compinies bread and butter is the same as theirs and I don’t like mlm marketing and that’s why dislike amsoil. In fact, some other forums have so many amsoil problems they adopt policies against it I think it’s funny, anyways about me getting into trouble I don’t think I’m flaming here I know my membership is a privilege, NOT a right, as this is a private forum, if sin city r/t wishes me to remove my avatar I would be more then happy to.

I do know that there are some overzealous Amsoil Dealers that are way out of line when they talk about Amsoil or post in forums. I try to make certain that I am not one of them and try to offer honest and un-biased information.

REPEAT --- I have never said Amsoil is the best for all drivetrains under all circumstances. What I do state is that Amsoil offers a superior product which is competitively priced. And I close by simply asking that everyone PLEASE CONSIDER AMSOIL the next time they change their fluids and filters.

In closing -- I noticed your picture icon pissing on the Amsoil logo. What is your beef with Amsoil? What Amsoil product(s) did you ever use that did not meet up to your expectations? Why don't you provide me with documentation (via PM or email) and I will follow up with Amsoil.

Time to switch another vehicle to AMSOIL _ :worky: (another satisfied customer)

Thank you,

Steven :drive:

[N56629]

my only concern was I want to replace the majority of my fluid with ammsoil since I have liked it but am worried that if I do something might fail. Will it probably not but I don't have a ton of money to throw into a new transmission and I have no more warranty.

Steven I think your a really nice and great guy but if my tranny failed and hypothetically speaking it was due to the ammsoil fluid I highly doubt that ammsoil would take the blame. Most people know its great stuff but they never seem to say that anything bad has ever happened while using any of their products and that is truly unbelievable. The products weren't made by God so I know somewhere something failed.

That attack or comment or whatever you want to call it was not really directed to you steve but more to ammsoil.

You are right to be concerned. While Amsoil can claim anything they want in their warranty it is not subject to the same laws as the manufacturer. If the manufacturer denies your claim you will have a hell of a time forcing
amsoil to honor theirs. Unless you have plenty of money and time to spare, forget it. Thus far no one has provided a single case in which amsoil has backed up their warranty.

[fishdude]

The "non-registered guest" who posted that did not provide any information (link, direct contact with me so that I could follow up, proof of a letter to Amsoil and response from Amsoil, or anything else credible) to back up his post so it must be discredited unless proven. Why? Because it is an anonymous post in a public forum without documentation.

I would happen to be that "non-registered guest" (DSW), as are many people who do not wish to pay to be a registered member of that forum.

I used Amsoil for a few years with good results, until the transmission failure of my 03 Dakota. I'm sure Amsoil makes good lubricants, but it didn't protect the transmission in my truck. I'm not upset that the ATF was oxidized and the transmission blew, things happen. What caused me to have great concern is that after it was identified that the Universal ATF was oxidized and the needle bearings of a planetary in the transmission were worn out, causing serious internal damage to the transmission, Amsoil didn't back up their warranty. Amsoil tested the ATF through their lab and Oil Analyzers reported the ATF was fine for continued use, while an independant lab I used said the ATF was oxidized and overrun.

Here's some info to add credibility to my post:

Amsoil TSR# 25348

Amsoil Universal ATF purchased 3-11-2005, invoice # 1157708
2003 Dakota 545RFE transmission failure 12-28-2006
48,884 miles on Amsoil's Universal ATF
89,118 total miles on transmission

Blackstone Laboratories commented (and this is word for word off their analysis report): "No moisture was found but insolubles were at limits. This shows the ATF was oxidized from heat and use and may indicate the oil was overrun."

You might ask yourself why I didn't pursue the warranty claim further? With the time and money I had already invested in getting my truck back on the road and filing the warranty claim through Amsoil, I was sick of dealing with the situation. Even if I had won, I would have lost, considering the additional time and money it would have taken to recover my $2000 loss.

Dan

[Y2KOTA]

IF you haven't pursued antthing further against AMSOIL, then thats your own doing. To me it sounds like your blaming AMSOIL and afraid to go any further with the claim due to you feel you could be blaming the wrong part of the tyranny. The ATF fluid could have been fine when other parts failed and the failure caused the ATF to test as such.

How did the needle bearings of a planetary in the transmission wear out? What prof is there that it was the ATF? Parts can fail, but at times its due to other issues with other parts in the process of failing. I've been a service tech for years. I seen this happen in electronics, mechanical, steam, hydraulics and other systems. Other parts need to be checked for defects also. To many times I've had to go back and re-repair a system due to other techs that didn't understand this theory

Sorry for the small rant here, just tired of people blaming only one the several possible causes. :sorry:

[mdandl]

I agree with Y2KOTA, Ive seen the needle bearings fail several times, most fail from overloading, ( to many burnouts, to much weight etc) but truth is that the bearing could of been failing since it was new.

[fishdude]

I see your point, some guy blindly sends in a warranty claim in hopes that Amsoil picks up the bill and is now complaining that he didn't get $$$

I looked at how the transmission failed, found the transmission fluid looked and smelled bad,,, then had oil analysis run on the ATF since I was confident that this type of failure was caused by insufficient lubricant. The needle bearings in one of the planetary gears actually looked like a "needle", sharp and pointy at one end, which eventually caused them to bind in their race, wear through the planetary case and then find their way into the other gears, OUCH! Transmission was pretty much locked up solid.

The tranny had worked flawlessly up until 10 minutes before meltdown when I heard a whining and felt a surge in the truck, then back to normal. I stopped at a gas station to check the truck to find nothing out of the ordinary,,,, until I dropped it back into drive when it lurched and stopped, only moving a foot at a time.

Was the failure caused by a bad part or bad lubricant? Since I followed Amsoil's recommendation to run their Universal ATF 12,000 miles past Dodge's maintenance schedule, had a transmission experience a lubrication/bearing failure and then have an independent lab find that the ATF was oxidized and over run, leads me to believe that the root cause of the failure was running the ATF too long.

As for not proceeding with the warranty claim... At the point Amsoil when denied the warranty claim I saw my options as, run further independent oil analysis to dispute Amsoil's findings and then go to court to recover my loss, or drop the warranty claim, eat my loss and learn a hard lesson. I chose to eat the $2000 and get on with life, not worth my time/money to try and fight a big corporation.

Many have had good experiences with Amsoil products and I did too, up until the transmission failure. Just sharing my experience. Read into it what you want, someone who's off their rocker or maybe, just maybe, someone who experienced a problem with an Amsoil lubricant and didn't have Amsoil back up their warranty.

Dan

[N56629]

Don't worry Amsoil knows full well most people can not afford to pursue their claims in court. This is true of most all large corporations. A product has to be pretty bad before they finally end up in a class action suit and even then it is an uphill battle. There are probably plenty of cases like yours just not enough to draw public attention.

As long as you couldn't afford to bring suit against Amsoil they will feel free to just brand you another Amsoil hater or nut case.

Not that it will make you feel any better but I'm sure you wouldn't have faired any better with any other oil company. Of course if you had followed the manufacturers recommendations instead of Amsoil's you might have been covered by the factory's warranty.

[tosterho]

Another thing popped into my head actually when I was walking my dog. ATF+4 is already a synthetic so how is going to Ammsoil atf really going to help you anymore. I actually found out by researching more that atf+4 has a higher viscosity than ammsoils atf. It was simply stated in laymans terms to meet the criteria of all other atf's they used this viscosity in their atf. So to me that doesn't seem too good or would be something that you want to gambe with especially in hot summertime, racing or hard core offroading. So I thought why would I pay so much more for ammsoil when buying regular atf+4 is a synthetic and is exactly what I need. After asking some transmission shops around here and some tranny techs they said to not use anything other than atf+4 in my year tranny. Now everyone has their opinions but I think that if they say it (mind you they do this for a living) then that's how it should be!:huh:

[Amsoil Dealer]

__________________

I am on the road so I am going to give everyone a short response this morning.

Thank you Y2KOTA and mdandl,

That is exactly what I wanted to say - but as an Amsoil Dealer there was a good possibility that if I had said something like that my post would have been totally discredited as being biased. I just wanted to say thank you for your comments and they are much appreciated.
__________________

fishdude (Dan) and everyone else,

I feel really bad when anyone has a drivetrain related problem and then feels that they did not get a sufficient answer or response from corporate headquarters (whoever the company and /or whatever the problem might be). I know for a fact that Amsoil ATF resists thermal and oxidative degradation better than other conventional and synthetic transmission fluids. If you ask around it is nearly impossible for anyone to find a situation where Amsoil was at fault for a transmission failure. It is hard to find anyone that even has a complaint. Bottom Line: You got 2 different opinions from 2 different labs. Who is right and who is wrong? And - was it the lubricant that created the problem ... or (as Y2KOTA put it) did a part fail which caused the ATF to test as such? I've seen many a mechanic blame the lubricant because it "smelled burnt" when in actuality it was a part failure that ruined the lubricant. I am sorry that I don't have a better response for you.
__________________

tosterho,

What am I supposed to say? What needs to be recognized is that there are different "qualities" of just about any product that you buy and fortunately consumers have a choice. The choice is yours. Please let me know if I can be of assistance.

Thank you,

Steven :drive:

[Amsoil Dealer]

__________________

More than one person has asked recently about current ATF prices.

Due to continued market volatility (higher raw materials costs), Amsoil has had to implement a few price changes
and below are the new prices on 2.5 gallon jugs (10 quarts), single quart bottles, and case prices (12 qt bottles).

Amsoil Synthetic Universal Transmission Fluid (Code: ATFTP-EA)

___ 2.5 GALLON CONTAINER ___

1 _ 2.5 gallon container (10 qts) ................. $100.95 Retail Price
(Amsoil Preferred Customer Price ... = only $ 76.45)

OTHER PRICES ___ QUART or CASE (12 QUARTS)

1 - Quart Bottle ................................. $ 10.70
(Amsoil Preferred Customer Price ...... = $ 8.00)

1 - Quart Bottles (case of 12) ............. $ 127.20
(Amsoil Preferred Customer Price ..... = $ 91.20)

These prices are as of July 2008, and are subject to change without notice.

[Shatto]

Another thing popped into my head actually when I was walking my dog. ATF+4 is already a synthetic so how is going to Ammsoil atf really going to help you anymore. I actually found out by researching more that atf+4 has a higher viscosity than ammsoils atf. It was simply stated in laymans terms to meet the criteria of all other atf's they used this viscosity in their atf. So to me that doesn't seem too good or would be something that you want to gambe with especially in hot summertime, racing or hard core offroading. So I thought why would I pay so much more for ammsoil when buying regular atf+4 is a synthetic and is exactly what I need. After asking some transmission shops around here and some tranny techs they said to not use anything other than atf+4 in my year tranny. Now everyone has their opinions but I think that if they say it (mind you they do this for a living) then that's how it should be!:huh:

:huh:
Along the lines of the propaganda we've been hearing about the poor innocent homebuyers being SCREWED by the EEEEEVVIIILLL lenders; this thread makes it sound like somebody was hunted down and forced to use Amsoil and their crummy product broke their truck. Cow Pies!

Prime Obama voters here.......he'll save you from having to do anything for yourself, except keep your tires inflated.

When my GMC Sonoma broke (2 engines, alternator, couple clutches, front suspension and brakes, 2 radiators, heater core and more) I didn't blame Amsoil and neither did the dealers who repaired it. Nor was it GM's design. Lots of S-10's and S-13's still around. The truck just got a bunch of bad parts.

I am an Amsoil dealer, so I can buy cheap. I won't sell to you or sponsor you and as such I don't care a wit about your cockeyed theories or your reaction to this.
You did swerve into an important fact in your ramblings and that is that you have the choice to not use Amsoil. I suggest you do just that.

By the way, the Dakota mentioned below now has 623,000 miles on the original engine and transmission, using......gasp!......Amsoil