Dif help...

[BlackDak]

Truck is an 01 QC AWD.

I am wondering what would happen if I removed the front CV Axles?

Would I leak fluid from the diff? ABS complications? I'd like to be able to convert to what's essentially a 2WD. I cannot break traction with the AWD for te life of me.

Maybe it would be better to pull the front driveline to the front dif from the xfer case...?

Ideas?

[HemiDak]

The only thing you need to do is pull the driveshaft. It's only 8 bolts and can easily be removed. Don't touch anything else. Voila, you now have a 2wd... ;)

[BlackDak]

Seriously, that's it?

God, what I wouldn't give to be able to push all the power to two tires instead of four!

[HemiDak]

Yup, that's all that is to it. You'll need to lock the transfercase into 4wd though. Regular fulltime 4wd won't work.

When in fulltime 4wd (not locked) the transfercase differential will allow the front output to spin, and the rear won't move. This is because it spins whatever driveshaft has the least resistance. Since there is no front driveshaft, the reason should be obvious.

When the transfercase is in 4wd lock, the transfercase differential is somewhat bypassed you could say. This is what will allow the rear to spin. The front output will spin also, but is spun freely since there's no driveshaft.

The "center differential" is what allows 4wd to work on the street without problems. It allows differentiation between the two driveshafts, where as locking it doesn't. That is the whole reason why I ditched fulltime 4wd in the first place. :D

[BlackDak]

I wish I had asked about this months ago!

I am not going to have any problems with my truck being an AWD, then?

My options are AWD, 4HI and 4LO...

[HemiDak]

Nope, you will have no problems driving like this. The differential and transfercase won't leak any fluid because of the fixed yokes. They just unbolt with 4 bolts at each end.

I drove around like this before when I had AWD. Just pull the lever back and you're a 2wd with the option of 2wd LO. ;)

[BlackDak]

I normally drive in AWD, of course. I don't have any levers, only a switch on the dash for selecting the transfer case. Without the front drive line, I should put it 4HI, right? That should lock the xfer and send power to the rear unles I am mistaken.

[HemiDak]

Yes, that is correct.

I forgot your truck is a 2001+ with the dash button. Oh well, doesn't really make a difference though.

After you remove the driveshaft, you should get some 4.56's for the rear. Spinning the tires will be soooooooo easy it's just stupid cool. :biggthump

[mopar318]

Why are you wanting to remove your 4wd. Ill give you my 96 2WD dak for the winter if i can borrow your AWD for the winter. Just make sure you dont go through more than like 1/2 inch of snow with the tires I have on it now. :mullet:

[360 xrt]

Dude ! youv'e been HI-POing your truck and modding it up for months now(looks good by the way)and now you realize you wanted a 2-wheel drive hotrod, thats fucked up.NO matter what you do to your AWD(which by the way was a very nice and expensive option) its not going to be the same.I'm half tempted to trade you trucks before you go and destroy that sweet ride you got !

[BlackDak]

Thanks for the props!

It's a 4x4, but it is definitely not treated like one! It does everything I want except break traction! What I wouldn't do for just one smokey burnout! The AWD keeps that from ever being possoible without a supercharger or something crazy like that. If I end up wanting the AWD back, all I will have to do is put the driveline back in....

[Anthony]

well atleast now you will gain some more power and at the same time save on gas

[BlackDak]

I ran into something unexpected when I went to pull the drive line. Is this normal?

The front end is 4 bolts - no problem. It's the rear of the line that twisted me up. Is that normal, and what do I need to do to get it off?

http://www.offroad-rc.com/Dakota/dakota20.jpg

http://www.offroad-rc.com/Dakota/dakota21.jpg

[BlackDak]

I still have time to do this tonight if someone can clarify that my pics are normal and explain how it comes off on the xfer case end!

[HemiDak]

well atleast now you will gain some more power and at the same time save on gas

Realistically, pulling the driveshaft will do neither of those things.

The CV axles, axle shafts, ring and pinion gears, AND differential are all still spinning. Power will still be lost because of the front tires still having to spin all that stuff.

In theory it's a nice idea, but lacks that much affect on the truck so it won't make that much of a difference. You'd have to do more to actually any differences.

I ran into something unexpected when I went to pull the drive line. Is this normal?

The front end is 4 bolts - no problem. It's the rear of the line that twisted me up. Is that normal, and what do I need to do to get it off?

You have a driveshaft I haven't seen on our trucks before. They probably switched to a different design, since in 2001 they switched to all new transfercases. I thought they would have kept them the same, but they obviously didn't. I honestly don't know what to do with that one.

[DanDB64]

Seriously, that's it?

God, what I wouldn't give to be able to push all the power to two tires instead of four!


Gimme yer wheels and I'll unbolt it for you

[BlackDak]

The CV axles, axle shafts, ring and pinion gears, AND differential are all still spinning. Power will still be lost because of the front tires still having to spin all that stuff.

In theory it's a nice idea, but lacks that much affect on the truck so it won't make that much of a difference. You'd have to do more to actually any differences.

The only difference I care about is the only one that it will definitely make... all the power to the rear instead of being split between two axles!


You have a driveshaft I haven't seen on our trucks before. They probably switched to a different design, since in 2001 they switched to all new transfercases. I thought they would have kept them the same, but they obviously didn't. I honestly don't know what to do with that one.

Wouldn't have it any other way! Dammit! Maybe I'll just start taking shit off and see what happens! The only thing that concerns me is that on the odd end, it looks like the pattern of the small bolts and the pieces of metal between them appear to be designed to create equal pressure on what might be a grease seal...

[Anthony]

Realistically, pulling the driveshaft will do neither of those things.

The CV axles, axle shafts, ring and pinion gears, AND differential are all still spinning. Power will still be lost because of the front tires still having to spin all that stuff.

I don't know Josh, I notice a difference in gas and performance when I go from 2WD to 4X4. Even in 2wd mode the front drivetrain still spins.

What about in your truck??

BlackDak keep us posted if you notice a difference!!

[HemiDak]

I don't know Josh, I notice a difference in gas and performance when I go from 2WD to 4X4. Even in 2wd mode the front drivetrain still spins.

What about in your truck??

The only thing I notice between 2wd and 4wd is the huge difference is traction.

Since there is no manual hubs or CAD (cantral axle disconnnect), everything in the front end still spins. This is why the driveshaft still spins in 2wd.

The only thing I can think of, is that the PCM is adjusted between 2wd and 4wd. Since the only time this should happen is in 4lo (tranny shifting), and can't see that happening in 4hi. I'd have to investigate this through the electrical system to find out more.

I honestly feel no difference, and haven't heard of anything that has besides you now. I really don't know what to say besides that...

[Anthony]

I totally agree when launching or driving in 4x4 it makes a BIG difference in traction. Having an AWD Dak with a turbo or supercharger would be sweet!!
Seeing as my Dak is stick and yours is auto I wonder if I notice more of a difference in performance from 2wd to 4wd then you do??

[HemiDak]

I wouldn't doubt it. You've got lower gearing than I do and can take advantage of having a clutch.

[BlackDak]

Well, the verdict is in!

The xfer case, mine at least, is open. What happens with no front driveshaft? A big fat NUTHIN! It needs the friction from the front dif to even move, the only way to get around it I think would be to fab a bracket that locks the front xfer case hub from spinning at all. Well, I am not willing to go that far...

Oh well, it was something to do.

[HemiDak]

I don't get what you're trying to say. Your post kind of confused me...

[Kooopsd]

I totally agree when launching or driving in 4x4 it makes a BIG difference in traction. Having an AWD Dak with a turbo or supercharger would be sweet!!
Seeing as my Dak is stick and yours is auto I wonder if I notice more of a difference in performance from 2wd to 4wd then you do??

I notice a difference aswell...and my gas mileage goes to shit.

[BlackDak]

Okay, I'll explain what happened, it will probably make sense then.

I removed all the bolts from the xfer case side of the front drive line, and two that I could get at from the front end of the drive line. I needed to roll the truck a little to get the other two bolts in the front to be accessable, so I hopped in and started it up.

I put it in gear and... Nothing. Engine revs, truck doesn't move. I could hear the front output from the xfer case spinning and hitting the loose end of the driveshaft, that's how I knew it was spinning.

I realised then what was happening. The xfer is like an open dif. It was sending power to the axle with the leat resistance. Since there was no driveline bolted up, there was zero resistance, so all energy was being transferred to the front.

The only way to make it work ios to make a bracket that would solidly fix the front xfer output in one position so that all the power would be transferred to the rear.

[BlackDak47]

Black. This is exactly what Josh was talking about. Since you have an AWD, you need to put yours in 4HI when your front drive shaft is out.

Becuase you have a AWD, the transfer case is designed to supply power to front and rear drive shafts. But becuase it is meant to also be driven on the street, it is not locked (Front and rear shaft rotation). This allows your truck to be AWD and make turns. When the shaft is out, the transfer case is allowing one shaft to turn faster than the other. Just as if you were making a turn in AWD. So when you put it in 4HI, this locks the two output of the transfer case so that both outputs turn the same no matter what situation. With you not having a front shaft, you will need to leave it in 4HI. This will allow you to be a 2wd. 4Hi will not harm anything. Just so long as your front shaft is out. 4Hi will lock the two outputs and a bracket to hold the front will not be neccesary.

Hope this clears it up. You did everything right. YOu just needed to put it in 4HI.

[BlackDak]

Black. This is exactly what Josh was talking about. Since you have an AWD, you need to put yours in 4HI when your front drive shaft is out.

Becuase you have a AWD, the transfer case is designed to supply power to front and rear drive shafts. But becuase it is meant to also be driven on the street, it is not locked (Front and rear shaft rotation). This allows your truck to be AWD and make turns. When the shaft is out, the transfer case is allowing one shaft to turn faster than the other. Just as if you were making a turn in AWD. So when you put it in 4HI, this locks the two output of the transfer case so that both outputs turn the same no matter what situation. With you not having a front shaft, you will need to leave it in 4HI. This will allow you to be a 2wd. 4Hi will not harm anything. Just so long as your front shaft is out. 4Hi will lock the two outputs and a bracket to hold the front will not be neccesary.

Hope this clears it up. You did everything right. YOu just needed to put it in 4HI.

Oh my god I suck.

[BlackDak]

I guess I know what I am doing in the morning...

...for that matter, I might go back out and do it tonight.

[Anthony]

LOL!!! Go easy on those 20" Toyo's

[HemiDak]

Black. This is exactly what Josh was talking about. Since you have an AWD, you need to put yours in 4HI when your front drive shaft is out.

Becuase you have a AWD, the transfer case is designed to supply power to front and rear drive shafts. But becuase it is meant to also be driven on the street, it is not locked (Front and rear shaft rotation). This allows your truck to be AWD and make turns. When the shaft is out, the transfer case is allowing one shaft to turn faster than the other. Just as if you were making a turn in AWD. So when you put it in 4HI, this locks the two output of the transfer case so that both outputs turn the same no matter what situation. With you not having a front shaft, you will need to leave it in 4HI. This will allow you to be a 2wd. 4Hi will not harm anything. Just so long as your front shaft is out. 4Hi will lock the two outputs and a bracket to hold the front will not be neccesary.

Hope this clears it up. You did everything right. YOu just needed to put it in 4HI.


Exactly. Thanks for saying that too. I know the concept can be a little hard for people to understand sometimes...;)

[chris4x4]

Wouldnt it be better to have a part time transfer case installed? I was just thinking that there are some people that want full time 4x4 and some that want part time 4x4, maybe there could be a swap? :biggthump
Just "posting out loud" folks. :wave:

[HemiDak]

Wouldnt it be better to have a part time transfer case installed? I was just thinking that there are some people that want full time 4x4 and some that want part time 4x4, maybe there could be a swap? :biggthump
Just "posting out loud" folks. :wave:

I've done it. :D

The swap isn't all that bad for the mechanically inclined. At first I was a little hesitant to do it, but when I found out how much it would cost me to get it done, I dove right in.

The thing I hated about my truck from day one was the full-time 4wd. I absolutely LOVE 2wd since I was without it for almost 2 years.

[chris4x4]

I've done it. :D

The swap isn't all that bad for the mechanically inclined. At first I was a little hesitant to do it, but when I found out how much it would cost me to get it done, I dove right in.

The thing I hated about my truck from day one was the full-time 4wd. I absolutely LOVE 2wd since I was without it for almost 2 years.
I've swapped out a couple for friends before. I would think it would be better to swap out a full timer for a part timer than to run around with a 2 wheel drive :biggthump

[BlackDak]

Holy shit!

I can't believe the difference! I can barely keep the rear end planted. I can finally feel the effects of the FIPK, headers and exhaust! I have a big smile now!

One problem, the ass end bounces horribly, some serious hopping (at least when I am really nailing it). Any ideas?

I wonder if that funky deal I removed actually made a difference? Either way, it can't go back on, there's no room for it with the roll pan there.

Thanks so much for the reminder about the xfer case switch!

[lilguido1]

I'm interested in the swap...I have an AWD t-case and would be willing to swap w/someone with a PT. My girl is a 2k.

Let me know - PM me...I'm in STL, MO

[BlackDak]

After one day of driving RWD, I have a couple thoughts...

- I am having a hard time keeping the rear end plant. I used to be able to drop the pedal, it would hook up and shoot straight. Now, The rear breaks free (everytime, and with authority) and the ass end goes sideways.

- It feels like I am running a Sure-Grip or something back there. From a stop, it just wants to do a 360. If I punch it while rolling (10-15 mph) it goes straight.

- I feel some kind of shake that wasn't there before, feels like it almost NEEDS both axles connected. There is a TON of vibration when the wheels are spinning, a lot of wheel hop. I am thinking that removing the bumper and that absorber back there may have removed some strength from the back end of the frame.

I also have not yet put my spare back up, so the rear end is very light.

I know I could curb some of these problems with clamps, etc, and I bet some shocks that aren't nearly 100,000 miles old would be a nice change.

At this point, I am contemplating putting the drive line back in... I think I'll give it a good week or so before I make up my mind though.

[BlackDak47]

I think that 4x4 suspensions are generaly softer so that may also be a little of the wheel hop. Good shocks could also help.

I have a brand new truck and I get wheel hop sometimes. Sometimes more than others but everyonce in a while it likes to really hop. Think it is becuase the suspension is pretty soft in this truck. So it may just be that the rear end is wanting to hop a little cuz the suspension isnt stiff enough to keep it planted.

Do you mean there is vibration when all wheels are spining (Ex. driving down the road) or just when you are spining the rear tires?

[BlackDak]

I think that 4x4 suspensions are generaly softer so that may also be a little of the wheel hop. Good shocks could also help.

I have a brand new truck and I get wheel hop sometimes. Sometimes more than others but everyonce in a while it likes to really hop. Think it is becuase the suspension is pretty soft in this truck. So it may just be that the rear end is wanting to hop a little cuz the suspension isnt stiff enough to keep it planted.

Do you mean there is vibration when all wheels are spining (Ex. driving down the road) or just when you are spining the rear tires?

When it happens, it happens while normal driving. I have been running for two days like this now, and it comes and goes. I need to pay more attention, but it "might" be more road feel. I wonder if a change like that is even possible.

It really feels like it has something to with with one of the axles, though.

Yesterday was wet, not the best conditions for a first time drive in RWD. Today was a lot better, as far as traction is concerned. I can still easily spin the tires.

I REALLY need to find an empty parking lot to roll some smoke off these 20's! If I can find a spot, I'll be sure to get vid, cause I'm only doing that ONCE.

[chris4x4]

Just a thought about the vibration.......If the front shaft was ballenced, maybe the Vib is from it being removed?

[BlackDak]

I was kind of thinking something similar. I would think that I'd feel it if a balanced shaft became unbalanced, but if it was removed?

I wonder if the front and rear are both supposed to be there...

I can live with it, it comes and goes and it's not that bad, my only concern is the possibility of a bearing failure or something due to the vibration, if it's possibly coming from the xfer case.

I noticed on the drive home tonight that it's really only noticable while accellerating, while coasting, I didn't feel it.

[chris4x4]

I guess if it gets bad, you can just yank the transfer case all together :wave: and get a longer rear drive shaft.